View Poll Results: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

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Thread: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

  1. #161
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    The only immoral act I can think of is giving the means of production to the workers, and taking them away from the capitalists who owned them. View it how you will. I'm seriously going to bed now though.
    Redistribution is definitely one of those evils I'm talking about. How many people do think would be comfortable stealing peoples property like that? Do you really want someone that can do those kind of acts in charge?

  2. #162
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You would think socialists would look towards the community to help the poor, not the state, but hey, socialists are usually confused about their own ideology.
    it's odd how their beliefs and advocacy run in direct contradiction to thier preferred society...

    "stateless, classless society" my ass... every single one of them advocates for total state control and further division of classes... without pause, without fail.

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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    it's odd how their beliefs and advocacy run in direct contradiction to thier preferred society...

    "stateless, classless society" my ass... every single one of them advocates for total state control and further division of classes... without pause, without fail.
    You would think socialists would be interested in decreasing the power of the state, but all they ever do is propose new ideas to grow the state. It's almost as if they don't realize you can never obtain a stateless society by growing the size and scope of government. Then again, I never believed they actually want a stateless society. To me they are the shining example of people that have made the state into a religion.

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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You would think socialists would be interested in decreasing the power of the state, but all they ever do is propose new ideas to grow the state. It's almost as if they don't realize you can't never obtain a stateless society by growing the size and scope of government. Then again, I never believed they actually want a stateless society. To me they are the shining example of people that have made the state into a religion.
    Government has become so convoluted the people technically tasked with leading it rarely have any real idea what they just signed.

    The people who elect them have even less chance of understanding it...

    I'm tempted to say the people who write/type/compose are in control.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #165
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    This is all ready going on in parts of the country. Work place democracy with worker CO-OP's.
    ahh yes.. co-ops.... capitalism that even socialists can enjoy

  6. #166
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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the money comes in from both sides, man.
    I disagree. The big money that makes a difference comes in from organizations that are controlled by the wealthy. Either that or some person who is wealthy runs with their own money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    as for influence, fox and talk radio lean hard American right. MSNBC and some talk shows lean hard American left. mainstream media leans soft American left. MSNBC leans hard American left.
    What you call American left is no more than social left in terms of moral values. There is very little left wing discourse in terms of left wing economic ideas that would empower the lower class in economic terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the public generally doesn't say "wait a minute" before it hits their doorsteps. this generally happens when the economy crashes or something serious happens, like a transition from manufacturing to a global / post labor economy. if there's not enough opportunity, people turn to safety nets. if there are no safety nets, people start to consider other options.
    Your argument has little merit because although we can see that people have lost jobs due to the effects of globalization, they still have not elected candidates that will take concrete steps to reverse such activity as outsourcing jobs. This is because they actually have very little power and are merely presented choices that will do nothing to effect such change.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 04-08-15 at 06:47 AM.

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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree. The big money that makes a difference comes in from organizations that are controlled by the wealthy. Either that or some person who is wealthy runs with their own money.
    i should clarify. i mean that big money is not just a right wing or a left wing phenomenon.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What you call American left is no more than social left in terms of moral values. There is very little left wing discourse in terms of left wing economic ideas that would empower the lower class in economic terms.
    both parties embrace corporatism in different ways.


    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Your argument has little merit because although we can see that people have lost jobs due to the effects of globalization, they still have not elected candidates that will take concrete steps to reverse such activity as outsourcing jobs. This is because they actually have very little power and are merely presented choices that will do nothing to effect such change.
    they haven't woken up enough to properly organize, and they haven't been offered an option that will do them much good. also, they don't know what to demand.

    what they should be demanding first is more choices and changes to the system to address gerrymandering and laws designed to artificially limit choice. i doubt that increasing wealth inequality and lack of opportunity can be effectively addressed in the current Republican / Democrat dynamic no matter who wins. very few on either side are vocal enough about it to convince me that they even care. i can only name a handful of lawmakers that treat this as a top priority issue.

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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i should clarify. i mean that big money is not just a right wing or a left wing phenomenon.
    I think it is more accurate to say it is not a Democratic or Republican phenomenon. I say that because there is very little "left" remaining in the Democratic party, particularly at the national level. What is there is confined to social issues such as gay rights and legalization of marijuana. There is practically nothing there in terms of left wing economic policy and ideology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    both parties embrace corporatism in different ways.
    That is true, but they both certainly embrace it. Therefore I say there is very little there in terms of left wing economic ideology and policy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    they haven't woken up enough to properly organize, and they haven't been offered an option that will do them much good. also, they don't know what to demand.

    what they should be demanding first is more choices and changes to the system to address gerrymandering and laws designed to artificially limit choice. i doubt that increasing wealth inequality and lack of opportunity can be effectively addressed in the current Republican / Democrat dynamic no matter who wins. very few on either side are vocal enough about it to convince me that they even care. i can only name a handful of lawmakers that treat this as a top priority issue.
    Absolutely. But again, that is because of the influence of wealth in this country. Although there are big donations coming from the wealthy to the Democrats, because left wing economic policy does not suit their interests, you will not see much of that. The most that you will get is a little more safety net relative to the Republicans, but nothing really substantial.

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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I think it is more accurate to say it is not a Democratic or Republican phenomenon. I say that because there is very little "left" remaining in the Democratic party, particularly at the national level. What is there is confined to social issues such as gay rights and legalization of marijuana. There is practically nothing there in terms of left wing economic policy and ideology.
    yeah, the Democrats are definitely more corporatist than populist on a lot of issues. this was illustrated during the health care debate. single payer was never on the table, and they couldn't even get a public option.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That is true, but they both certainly embrace it. Therefore I say there is very little there in terms of left wing economic ideology and policy.
    agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Absolutely. But again, that is because of the influence of wealth in this country. Although there are big donations coming from the wealthy to the Democrats, because left wing economic policy does not suit their interests, you will not see much of that. The most that you will get is a little more safety net relative to the Republicans, but nothing really substantial.
    i agree with that, also. the only reasons to vote Democrat instead of Republican are social equality issues, a little less war, and a little less trickle down. and the sad part is that even if they controlled both branches of government, they would probably misprioritize and go straight to carbon taxes and gun control. jobs, economic opportunities, education, and infrastructure. that's what we want, it's what we need and that's what they should be prioritizing if they ever control congress and the presidency.

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    Re: Do the wealthy have too much power in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i agree with that, also. the only reasons to vote Democrat instead of Republican are social equality issues, a little less war, and a little less trickle down. and the sad part is that even if they controlled both branches of government, they would probably misprioritize and go straight to carbon taxes and gun control. jobs, economic opportunities, education, and infrastructure. that's what we want, it's what we need and that's what they should be prioritizing if they ever control congress and the presidency.
    Economic opportunities, education and infrastructure would definitely make the difference. That's actually where Obama should have struck hard in his first term when Democrats controlled Congress. It was a monumental shame to have missed such a opportunity. Who knows when that will happen again.

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