View Poll Results: Should the State force Sally to be ****'d by white men?

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  • I think Christians should be allowed to opt out of gay weddings - No

    4 26.67%
  • I think Christians should be allowed to opt out of gay weddings - Yes

    5 33.33%
  • I think Christians should be made to sell to gay weddings - No

    2 13.33%
  • I think Christians should be made to sell to gay weddings - Yes

    4 26.67%
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Thread: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?[W:118]

  1. #131
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    It would if the Muslim declared he was refused service based on the bakery owners religious views.
    No, it wouldn't. The baker in your scenario isn't refusing to sell a product that isn't even on his shelf because the patron is a Muslim.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #132
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Only the christian victimhood complex could come up with such insane hyperbole. Selling a cake to a homosexual is not the same thing as being forced to have sex with someone. I wish that you had at least an ounce of shame and you should be embarrassed for making such a comparison.
    it is perfectly valid analogy as sex is legal commerce in parts of Nevada.

    that you are bothered by the analogy says more about your position then it does the analogy

    and just so you know - forcing a company that produces products to serve a segment they don't want is very similar to forcing a company that provides a service to serve a segment they don't want.
    Last edited by ARealConservative; 04-08-15 at 03:49 PM.

  3. #133
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    There's usually exceptions to every rule. Dreaming up hypothetical gotcha scenarios to distract from real time discrimination is just that.
    Exceptions to rules must have their own rules. For example, we allow freedom of association. In order to defeat Jim Crow, we created an exception to that freedom, justified by the burden being born by African Americans of a systemic social and state-enforced system of discrimination. Otherwise everything is an "exception".
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  4. #134
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And what you are doing is complaining that I am not answering the question of whether I have stopped beating my wife with a yes or no answer
    That is incorrect. The "have you stopped beating your wife" question is one that presupposes your guilt. This is a question on whether or not or to what degree you actually believe in overriding individual rights in the name of enforcing non-discrimination.

    But you don't want to answer the question, because the moral answer (no one should be forced to have sex with another - that's rape - and you shouldn't be punished in lieu of getting raped, either) is obviously contradictory to the argument that you have settled yourself into.

    You aren't willing to draw the line at which point it is right to override individual liberties in the area of non-discrimination. It seems as though you aren't coming to this question from a position of actual application of beliefs about conflicting rights, but rather a sense that:



    You empathize with the gay couple, but not with the Christian business owner. You empathize with the woman, but not with the john. Hence, conflicting positions, hence, refusal to address the issue, hence, attempts to shift to something else.




    Watch, I can demonstrate it: Let us assume that we are in a scenario where a provision of sex services is indeed a legal public accommodation. In that scenario, do you believe that the state should force Sally to relive her trauma by forcing her to allow white men to sexually penetrate her against her will, or punish her for not doing so?
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  5. #135
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And how is this substantially different?
    Because the question is not "What should Sally do?", but rather, "What should the State do?". If Sally refuses, should the state force her, or punish her for refusing to be forced?


    It's a painful question. The equivalent (where the tables are turned) might be the pro-choice point that, if pro-lifers really believed their position, then it seems they should be additionally in favor of punishing women who (in a hypothetical world where the pro-life movement has won) get illegal abortions. That's an uncomfortable thing to say, and consistency feels abusive/mean because we can all easily imagine women in that position that we would sympathize with, but the pro-choice movement is right to force the pro-life movement to come to grips with the question and answer honestly.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-08-15 at 04:00 PM.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  6. #136
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. The "have you stopped beating your wife" question is one that presupposes your guilt. This is a question on whether or not or to what degree you actually believe in overriding individual rights in the name of enforcing non-discrimination.

    But you don't want to answer the question, because the moral answer (no one should be forced to have sex with another - that's rape - and you shouldn't be punished in lieu of getting raped, either) is obviously contradictory to the argument that you have settled yourself into.

    You aren't willing to draw the line at which point it is right to override individual liberties in the area of non-discrimination. It seems as though you aren't coming to this question from a position of actual application of beliefs about conflicting rights, but rather a sense that:

    You empathize with the gay couple, but not with the Christian business owner. You empathize with the woman, but not with the john. Hence, conflicting positions, hence, refusal to address the issue, hence, attempts to shift to something else.




    Watch, I can demonstrate it: Let us assume that we are in a scenario where a provision of sex services is indeed a legal public accommodation. In that scenario, do you believe that the state should force Sally to relive her trauma by forcing her to allow white men to sexually penetrate her against her will, or punish her for not doing so?
    And you continue to run from the point I am making in answering your question. Why can you not respond to the points made when answering your question?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #137
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Because the question is not "What should Sally do?", but rather, "What should the State do?". If Sally refuses, should the state force her, or punish her for refusing to be forced?

    What part of the bold was not clear, regarding what the state should do (IMO)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    If Sally cannot reasonably serve a substantial part of the public, she should not own or be working in a public business where that is required.

    Just like the Muslim woman at Target who did not want to handle pork. Then she should not have taken that job.

    If Sally will not comply with the business regulations of the state, her license for that business should be revoked or her boss should fire her. Or stick her in the office to do paperwork or other tasks required for that business.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #138
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And you continue to run from the point I am making in answering your question. Why can you not respond to the points made when answering your question?
    I did - I pointed out that they are irrelevant and attempts to shift away from the actual issue under review.

    That's why I offered you a chance to answer a hypothetical in which your objections were met - in which the points you made were given, integrated, and we were instead in a scenario where prostitutes were legally declared public accommodations.

    and, as I figured you would, you continue to refuse to answer.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  9. #139
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The equivalent (where the tables are turned) might be the pro-choice point that, if pro-lifers really believed their position, then it seems they should be additionally in favor of punishing women who (in a hypothetical world where the pro-life movement has won) get illegal abortions. That's an uncomfortable thing to say, and consistency feels abusive/mean because we can all easily imagine women in that position that we would sympathize with, but the pro-choice movement is right to force the pro-life movement to come to grips with the question and answer honestly.
    Many pro-life supporters clearly state they would want women punished...by the law or by pain and death...for having abortions, legal or not.

    Some clearly state that death and/or suffering is deserved, and that prison or other gross violations of their rights are justified.

    IMO, if you are willing to vote for restrictions on abortion (or candidates that will push for such), you support legal penalties for women who have illegal abortions. Otherwise, what is the point of legal restrictions?
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #140
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    Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What part of the bold was not clear, regarding what the state should do (IMO)?
    The part that was not clear was..... the part where I missed that. Mea Culpa. Do you think the state should seek punitive action?
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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