View Poll Results: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious belief?

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • The Jewish owned bakery can refuse to make a Adolph Hitler birthday cakes.

    16 84.21%
  • The Jewish owned bakery has to make Adolph Hitler birthday cakes.

    2 10.53%
  • The black hardware store owner can refuse to sell 4x4 lumber and gas cans to the KKK

    11 57.89%
  • The black hardware store owner has to sell 4x4 lumber and gas cans to the KKK

    5 26.32%
  • The pro-choice owned print shop can refuse to make pro-life pamphlets

    11 57.89%
  • The pro-choice owned print shop has to make pro-life pamphlets

    3 15.79%
  • The anti-2nd amendment owned convention center can refuse to rent space to the NRA

    11 57.89%
  • The anti-2nd amendment owned convention center has to rent space to the NRA.

    4 21.05%
  • A christian,Jewsih or Muslim owned restaurant can refuse to cater a gay wedding

    12 63.16%
  • A Christian,Jewish or Muslim owned restaurant has to cater a gay wedding.

    5 26.32%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious belief?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The company is property of the person who owns it. I could have asked "Should a person be forced to sell or rent his property and or services to groups or individuals or groups whose views go against their religious values or conscience. "But I would not have been able to squeeze all that in poll options.
    The reason I mentioned it was the difference it makes in these cases. A business can be a legal person or not. The consequences can be quite different in these cases.

  2. #82
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I am pretty sure the bible does not say you can be an accomplice is someone's sin. Jesus didn't buy the prostitute some hooker clothes, nor did he help the tax collector invent new ways of screwing people out of their money.

    snip...

    In other words, the ones who are refusing to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple because of their "Christian" beliefs need to go back and learn what the Bible does say...and what the Bible does not say.



    Selling a regular cake and selling a gun to someone is one thing.Someone telling you they need a gay wedding cake or they want a gun to kill their neighbor,ex-wife,husband or whoever is a totally different thing and it makes you an accomplices in the gay wedding and the murder .
    I'll give you that I gave a poor example, so let's broaden the scope a bit. If you're "Christian" and you refuse to sell stuff that you believe will be used by this or that person for sinful purposes, what the heck CAN you sell? Not much. I sell airline tickets, so if I were to do as that bakery couple says, then if a man comes into my store and says he wants a plane ticket so he can go back and marry his girlfriend in a heathen religion, then I must not sell tickets to him...for what he is doing is very much a sin in the eyes of God.

    AGAIN, homosexuality is something that people are (to varying degrees (hence those who are 'bi')) BORN with. It's very easy for you to prove to yourself: let a Chippendale's stripper come to your private home and strip for you. Would you be sexually attracted to him? No? And that in and of itself shows you that one's sexual preferences is NOT a matter of choice, because just as you can't force yourself to be sexually attracted to that male stripper, someone who is full-on gay can't force himself to be sexually attracted to women. It's a BIOLOGICAL thing, just as are color, height, type of hair, whatever.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #83
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    There is no difference between a "gay" marriage and a marriage besides the genders of the people involved. You are discriminating against people based merely on their sexuality. I understand if some really evil people don't want to perpetuate the idea that we should all respect and love each other, regardless of stupid crap like being grossed out by anal sex, but I'd like to think that we don't make laws based on the wishes of really evil people.

    Public accommodation laws don't deal with contracts between businesses, which is what dealing with an organization like the KKK or NRA would fall under. You can't deny service to a member of such a group who walks into your store, but organizations don't go to stores. Laws are a lot more complicated than "my pet causes aren't getting special treatment so... discrimination!!"
    Unless the NRA and KKK as groups are selling products and services they are no more a business than a group of people trying to get married.Again organizations are people.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #84
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Here's the problem I have with the poll, you list along with gays, Hitler and the KKK. Being gay harms NO ONE.
    Unless you are the militant variety and use your status as a weapon to punish those who disagree with you. Then you deserve the repercussions.

  5. #85
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I'll give you that I gave a poor example, so let's broaden the scope a bit. If you're "Christian" and you refuse to sell stuff that you believe will be used by this or that person for sinful purposes, what the heck CAN you sell? Not much. I sell airline tickets, so if I were to do as that bakery couple says, then if a man comes into my store and says he wants a plane ticket so he can go back and marry his girlfriend in a heathen religion, then I must not sell tickets to him...for what he is doing is very much a sin in the eyes of God.

    .
    If you want to sell someone a plane ticket so that they can marry someone in a heathen region or you want to perform perform a gay wedding or something related to that wedding then that is your choice.However the government should not force you to sell or rent your property and or services to those people if you believe that heathen and gay weddings violate your religious belief of conscience.

    AGAIN, homosexuality is something that people are (to varying degrees (hence those who are 'bi')) BORN with. It's very easy for you to prove to yourself: let a Chippendale's stripper come to your private home and strip for you. Would you be sexually attracted to him? No? And that in and of itself shows you that one's sexual preferences is NOT a matter of choice, because just as you can't force yourself to be sexually attracted to that male stripper, someone who is full-on gay can't force himself to be sexually attracted to women. It's a BIOLOGICAL thing, just as are color, height, type of hair, whatever
    Again, until scientist prove there is a gay gene this claim that someone is born a homosexual is nonsense.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Everyone knows Nazis hate birthday cake, so your question is invalid.
    It's not that they hate birthday cake, it's just that all the ovens were being used at the time.

  7. #87
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Unless the NRA and KKK as groups are selling products and services they are no more a business than a group of people trying to get married.Again organizations are people.
    Even if organizations were people (they aren't, it's WAY more complicated than Romney's little slogan), organizations have no traits. They have no gender, no race, no sexuality, no religion, no nationality, nothing. They are completely blank slates, and thus cannot be discriminated against. Discrimination is about identity, not ideas. Ideas get subject to the marketplace. People don't.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  8. #88
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Even if organizations were people (they aren't, it's WAY more complicated than Romney's little slogan), organizations have no traits. They have no gender, no race, no sexuality, no religion, no nationality, nothing. They are completely blank slates, and thus cannot be discriminated against. .
    The people that make up those organizations most certainly can certainly have traits.

    Discrimination is about identity, not ideas.
    Gay marriage is an idea not an identity.

    Ideas get subject to the marketplace. People don't
    Your idea that two men marry each other or that two women can marry each other is an idea not a person
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #89
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    I voted across the board for business owners to have the ability to refuse service to anyone. That said why in the hell would you? After all you are in business to make money, not to spread the gospel, not to talk about who you have sex with, Etc.

  10. #90
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    Re: Should businesses be allowed to not violate their their conscience/religious beli

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Racer View Post
    I voted across the board for business owners to have the ability to refuse service to anyone. That said why in the hell would you? After all you are in business to make money, not to spread the gospel, not to talk about who you have sex with, Etc.
    Not everyone is willing to sell out his moral values in order to maximize his profits.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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