View Poll Results: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

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    33 89.19%
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Thread: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

  1. #121
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    The 1.5 million number is definitely disputed:

    U.S. Ambassador Morgenthau was the source for the 1.5 million number. It should be noted though that Morgenthau was a racist, who believed that Turks were an inferior race and openly printed that Turks had “inferior blood.” One cannot expect accurate reporting from such a biased man, yet it is his reports on which much of the Armenian accounts are based on. Vartanian also refers to a remark by Adolf Hitler, as though somehow the psychotic ravings of a man known for exterminating the Jews can be relied on for accurate history.

    He also asserts that “claims against the Armenians are purely anecdotal.” I highly doubt that the mass of evidence can be referred to as anecdotal: there are eyewitness accounts of Russian soldiers, demographic evidence, reports from Allied soldiers, photographic evidence, as well as testimonies from the Turkish refugees. Seventy American scholars -- including Prof. McCarthy of the University of Louisville, Prof. Bernard Lewis of Princeton, and Prof. Sandford Shaw of the University of California at Los Angeles -- testified in 1988 in front of the House International Committee that there was no genocide of Armenians. The Clinton Administration continues to back the Turkish people on this issue, because it knows the truth: there was no Armenian genocide.

    Further, there is strong evidence that most Armenians died of disease and starvation. 10 times as Turks died of disease and starvation in that same war time frame.

    The source of the 1.5 million number, the source being an open eugenics bigot who believed Turks were racially inferior, appears to trace back to a comment by Hitler in reference to his policy towards Jews, which is no scientific proof of anything and is just worthless hearsay by a maniac with no indication of what that hearsay source was - if anyone.

    Ottomans definitely slaughtered a lot of Armenians. Probably more than Ottomans slaughtered by Armenians. Everyone was getting slaughtered in that region.

    I will agree there were many atrocities including large scale ones against Armenians. But that there was a genocide I believe was British propaganda and Armenian propaganda for their own territorial and nationalist reasons, with no one to argue against it at the time. Since then dozens and dozens of LEGITIMATE scholars have declared THERE WAS NO ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

    It was great PR and justification for the West and USA to seize virtually all Ottoman Empire territory and the entire M.E. I don't believe there was an Armenian genocide. Rather, there were small and great atrocities including against civilians by all sides. Because the Ottomans lost and they are gone, the only finger pointing is that them. But the real culprits were the Western Powers and Russia who wanted to take over and have the Ottoman Empire's territory.

    - - - -
    SO... after reading all and doing my own research, I'm answering the poll "no."

    How do you like them apples?
    Last edited by joko104; 04-07-15 at 09:14 PM.

  2. #122
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    That report was written by the victorious British against a dead person of an non-existent government that was replaced by a government of his enemies overseen by the British.
    Lol, the victorious British? You mean a British scholar of Armenian origin whose academic career has revolved around studying exactly what happened during the genocide. Your arguments are starting to get absurd. Proclaiming there is biased based on the person's origin just makes you look like you REALLY have no interest in discussing the topic unless it's by some absurd standard you propose. When given evidence by scholars who study the topic, you claim bias because they're British, then when shown the actual policies in place you dismiss them because you want a call for genocide, as if that was a requirement for there to have been a genocide. It isn't joko.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #123
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    smart jews always like turkey and you know why if you are good at history
    Despite Jews being only a tiny fraction of the population today, antisemitic sentiments are quite common among modern-day Turks.[6] Public critique of Israeli policy in Turkey has a tradition of turning into expressions of general antisemitic sentiment.[7]

    Since 2009, a fall in the Jewish population has been registered on this account. By September 2010 the Jewish population dropped to 17,000 people, mostly due to an emigration to Israel which has been explained by security concerns stemming from rising antisemitic sentiments[8] following incidents such as the 2006 Lebanon War, the 2008–2009 Gaza War and the May 2010 Gaza flotilla raid in which nine Turkish citizens were killed after assaulting Israeli Navy commandos boarding the flotilla ships to uphold the maritime blockade against Gaza.[9][10][11]

    Antisemitism in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Sounds lovely.

  4. #124
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lol, the victorious British? You mean a British scholar of Armenian origin whose academic career has revolved around studying exactly what happened during the genocide. Your arguments are starting to get absurd. Proclaiming there is biased based on the person's origin just makes you look like you REALLY have no interest in discussing the topic unless it's by some absurd standard you propose. When given evidence by scholars who study the topic, you claim bias because they're British, then when shown the actual policies in place you dismiss them because you want a call for genocide, as if that was a requirement for there to have been a genocide. It isn't joko.
    70 scholars with NO interest in the findings or prejudice claim there was no Armenian genocide. Asserted policies do not make a genocide. There was no genocide. There were atrocities and on a large scale. But not just against Armenians.

  5. #125
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Sounds lovely.
    She gave an honest reply. Got a problem with that?

  6. #126
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    She gave an honest reply. Got a problem with that?
    Just that its not based in fact.

  7. #127
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lol, the victorious British? You mean a British scholar of Armenian origin whose academic career has revolved around studying exactly what happened during the genocide.
    Ah, a British Armenian is your sourcee! You would REALLY have to try hard to find a more bias source. What is the bias of the SEVENTY American academic scholars from multiple universities who swore under oath their research showed there was NO Armenian genocide?

    NOR do you respond that the largest cause of Armenian deaths was disease and starvation - but far more Turks died of the same thing? You don't respond. You just repeat.

  8. #128
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Just that its not based in fact.
    You're claiming there is no anti-Jew sentiment in Turkey??? Do you really think that?

  9. #129
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You're claiming there is no anti-Jew sentiment in Turkey??? Do you really think that?
    No. Im saying the opposite and have provided a link to substantiate my claim.

  10. #130
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    Re: Did the Ottoman Empire Commit Genocide Against the Armenians?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    70 scholars with NO interest in the findings or prejudice claim there was no Armenian genocide. Asserted policies do not make a genocide. There was no genocide. There were atrocities and on a large scale. But not just against Armenians.
    Armenian Genocide denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    On May 19, 1985, The New York Times and The Washington Post ran an advertisement in which a group of 69 American historians called on Congress not to adopt the resolution on the Armenian Genocide.[86] Bernard Lewis, a prominent historian of Islam at Princeton, was among them and so the case was named after him.[86][87] [88] The advertisement was paid for by the Committee of the Turkish Associations.[86] Another important signee was Heath Lowry, the director of the Institute of Turkish Studies at Georgetown.[89] Both Lewis and Lowry have been included among the key deniers of the Armenian Genocide.[90][91] According to Roger W. Smith, Eric Markusen and Robert Jay Lifton, Lowry was also advising on how to prevent mention of the Armenian Genocide in scholarly works, and was discovered ghost writing for the Turkish ambassador in Washington on issues regarding the Embassy's denial of the Armenian Genocide.[92] The Armenian Assembly of America found that many or most of the 69 academics apparently benefited directly or indirectly from Turkish government research grants.[93][94] According to Yair Auron, an Israeli historian, scholar and expert specializing in Genocide studies and racism, this advertisement is a good example of one of many Turkish attempts to influence academia, a project on which Turkey spends enormous funds.[95]
    In October 2000, when the House of Representatives of the US was to discuss the resolution on the Armenian Genocide, Turkish politician Şükrü Elekdağ admitted that the statement had become useless because none of the original signatories besides Justin McCarthy would agree to sign a new, similar declaration.[98][99]
    Would you like to try this again? So what do we have? NONE of the people who originally signed that document agreed to sign it again. Most of them were paid for by the Turkish government. A Turkish politician admitted that it was useless to try and rehash the matter because there was no support for it anymore except for one person. And you're calling into question a guy because he's a British Armenian? You're a desperate revisionist.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 04-07-15 at 10:45 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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