View Poll Results: Is the US a Christian Country?

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    20 24.39%
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    52 63.41%
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Thread: Is the US a Christian country?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    No the U.S. is not specifically a Christian nation. There are synagogues that were established here long before many Christian denominations.

    Before the Constitution there was the Declaration of Independence where the writer did not refer to God as Jesus but did acknowledge a belief in a Supreme Being. Throughout the document a reference to God is made four some say five times. I'll start off with two that are connected, " Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God". Who is responsible for “the laws of nature” but God......certainly not man nor nature itself? From the “laws of nature” sprang an awareness of natural law sometimes called common sense which we seem to be in real short supply these days. It was understood by early philosophers to be a source of higher law that never changes. Nature's law is best explained by Cicero, a Roman politician, as early as the 1st Century B. C. and whose philosophy influenced the Founders. Of course what Cicero wrote predated the existence of Christianity when he stated “Nor may any other law override it, (Nature's Law) nor may it be repealed as a whole or in part… Nor is it one thing at Rome and another at Athens, one thing today and another tomorrow, but one eternal and unalterable law, that binds all nations forever.” Of “Nature’s God,” the second reference to deity is, of course, more explicit and needs no explanation.

    The third reference to God in the Declaration of Independence is the word “Creator” found in the second paragraph. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” This boldly identified our base for at least three unalienable rights as God, and the Founders identified this truth as self-evident. Any person endowed with common sense or reason (as Cicero explained in the laws of nature) should come to this conclusion without difficulty.

    The fourth and fifth references to God are found in the last paragraph. “We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown…”

    The fifth and last reference to God asks for God's divine protection in our course of action. “And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”
    There was no dissent noted with respect to these references to God in this document by any of the participants then, nor should there be now.
    The Founders understood in order to have a self governing system it requires people to be of good moral character. Something quite lacking in today's society which requires more laws to be implemented and with each new law freedom is lost.
    Constant references to the Declaration of Independence for the ones who see America as a Christian nation when for some reason, the actual founding document of the nation - The US Constitution - doesn't mention God at all and specifically says that ". . . no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust"

    I wonder why that might be.

    Then there are the various claims about English Common Law, the foundation of the legal system in much of the English-speaking world, being part of the Christian heritage - Thomas Jefferson didn't think that was the case
    Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law. . . .

    For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement of England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of the Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law ... This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it ... That system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians.
    -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  2. #52
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Constant references to the Declaration of Independence for the ones who see America as a Christian nation when for some reason, the actual founding document of the nation - The US Constitution - doesn't mention God at all and specifically says that ". . . no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust"

    I wonder why that might be.

    Then there are the various claims about English Common Law, the foundation of the legal system in much of the English-speaking world, being part of the Christian heritage - Thomas Jefferson didn't think that was the case
    You just denied the first true document of our founding (Declaration of Independence) as being irrelevant because it mentioned a Supreme Being and those Founders involved totally in agreement in its signing. And then you want to point to the Constitution that does not mention God. Did it ever occur to you that the importance of Religious liberty to the Founders is why they listed it the VERY FIRST LIBERTY in the Consitution? Did you EVER give that any thought?

  3. #53
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    Jesus Christ...of course it's not.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
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  4. #54
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    The first reference to God as the foundation of an American colony was noted in the ‘Mayflower Compact,’ dated November 11, 1620:

    “….Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and advancement of
    the Christian faith, and the honour of our king and country, a
    voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia;
    Do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the presence of
    God and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together
    into a Civil Body….”

    Many of the founding fathers recognized that the principles of civil law were inseparably linked to Biblical truths. James Wilson, one of the original Supreme Court Justices, and a signer of the Constitution, explained,

    “Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants…”

    Additionally, the United States Supreme Court specifically recognized America as a Christian nation. In the case “Church of the Holy Trinity vs. the United States” (Feb. 29, 1892, US457-458), Justice Josiah Brewer, following a lengthy and exhaustive search of early American historical literature, commented, “We find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth….that we are a Christian nation….”

    In another Supreme Court Case, “Zorach vs. Clauson” (1952, US306 307 313), Justice William O. Douglas categorically stated, “We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.” Further, in “United States vs. Macintosh” (1931, 283 US 605, 625), Justice George Sutherland affirmed, “We are a Christian people….affording to one another the equal right of religious freedom, and acknowledge with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God.”

    Historical revisionists contend the founding fathers were predominately deists. The facts say otherwise.

    According to Dr. M.E. Bradford of the University of Dallas, of the 55 framers, 28 were Episcopalians, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, and there were two each of Lutherans, Dutch Reformed, Methodists and Roman Catholics. That left, by Bradford’s counting, three deists and one founder whose religious views cannot be determined definitively.

    The Moral Foundations of America « The Righter Report
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  5. #55
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    Some Christianists would fit right into Putin's Russia.

    "The head of the Novosibirsk State Opera and Ballet Theatre has been fired by the Russian Culture Minister over a 'blasphemous' opera, prompting further fears about free speech and religious freedom in Russia...."

    National Secular Society - Putin continues promotion of
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  6. #56
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Some Christianists would fit right into Putin's Russia.

    "The head of the Novosibirsk State Opera and Ballet Theatre has been fired by the Russian Culture Minister over a 'blasphemous' opera, prompting further fears about free speech and religious freedom in Russia...."

    National Secular Society - Putin continues promotion of
    I would think those who are willing to violate, trample the religious liberties of anyone a member of all those faiths that don't recognize SSM whether it be Muslims, Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Sikhs fit that bill.

  7. #57
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    The US is not a Christian theocracy, but there are Christians that live here. Christian, Muslim, atheist, Buddhist, etc... The Constitution supports freedom of religion and prevents the gov from establishing a state religion. In that sense the US is not a "Christian nation" but is a nation of Christians (as well as other faiths).
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  8. #58
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    No, it is not, end of discussion.

  9. #59
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    The first reference to God as the foundation of an American colony was noted in the ‘Mayflower Compact,’ dated November 11, 1620:

    “….Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and advancement of
    the Christian faith, and the honour of our king and country, a
    voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia;
    Do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the presence of
    God and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together
    into a Civil Body….”

    Many of the founding fathers recognized that the principles of civil law were inseparably linked to Biblical truths. James Wilson, one of the original Supreme Court Justices, and a signer of the Constitution, explained,

    “Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants…”

    Additionally, the United States Supreme Court specifically recognized America as a Christian nation. In the case “Church of the Holy Trinity vs. the United States” (Feb. 29, 1892, US457-458), Justice Josiah Brewer, following a lengthy and exhaustive search of early American historical literature, commented, “We find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth….that we are a Christian nation….”

    In another Supreme Court Case, “Zorach vs. Clauson” (1952, US306 307 313), Justice William O. Douglas categorically stated, “We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.” Further, in “United States vs. Macintosh” (1931, 283 US 605, 625), Justice George Sutherland affirmed, “We are a Christian people….affording to one another the equal right of religious freedom, and acknowledge with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God.”

    Historical revisionists contend the founding fathers were predominately deists. The facts say otherwise.

    According to Dr. M.E. Bradford of the University of Dallas, of the 55 framers, 28 were Episcopalians, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, and there were two each of Lutherans, Dutch Reformed, Methodists and Roman Catholics. That left, by Bradford’s counting, three deists and one founder whose religious views cannot be determined definitively.

    The Moral Foundations of America « The Righter Report
    That is all true but the Founders were setting up a government that would respect all religious beliefs and allow a man the right of conscious to practice that faith not just in private but publically. Implementing that did not happen over night for some of faith thought theirs was the only true faith and caused great strife among believers.
    Before the Baptists and Methodists established their first church buildings there were congregations of Jews among them meeting in homes at first and later building their synagogues. there's a famous letter George Washington wrote to a Jewish congregation assuring them in this country their religious freedoms were protected. I will look it up if you like. The Catholics were truly persecuted in several early colonies by other protestant faiths. While others were enjoying religious freedom in the 1700's. Catholics were not welcomed in some state governments till around the 1800's even though they were the first to bring the Gospel to North America iin 1610 in what is known today as New Mexico. The mission is still operating and performs mass.

    Also there are documents written by Madison who discouraged the state of Virginia from teaching a certain religion in public schools. Because there are vast disagreements within any faith and in public one should not be lifted up over another. I'll be glad to looks those documents up if you like.

    We have such a wonderful country to live in where no one has the right to tell you what you must believe. And at the same time all religious rights should be protected as the Constitution states. Unfortunately today they are not and that must change.

  10. #60
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    Re: Is the US a Christian country?

    Yea, Most US citizens are Christian.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

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