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Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat
The Bible includes Jesus' words - the history of the scripture does not support a narrative wherein items like this get made up and later included.
Well, (though it's a odd qualification; I'm not sure why you brought it up), my father is a Pastor in the United Methodist Church, and he understands enough to know that, yes, indeed, the Gospels are accurate. He also knows broader Christianity enough to know that you do not love people by enabling them. Having also grown up in the United Methodist Church, attending a United Methodist college, and studying under United Methodists bishops, I also understand UMC doctrine enough to know that your Sunday-school-teaching-father should have taught you that it is their belief that Scripture is not only driven and shaped by the Holy Spirit, but the primary source for proper doctrine.
The beliefs of the United Methodist Church stand solidly against a description of any Scripture as "homophobic".
Methodism was founded by John Wesley, his brother Charles, and, to a lesser extent, George Whitefield (they disagreed sharply on some issues, notably predestination, which the Methodist Church does not teach). The Wesleyan Quadrilateral is the description of the way in which Methodists are supposed to arrive at theological conclusions. The First and Foremost source? The Bible. If the Bible says it, there you go. If the Bible does not directly address the issue? Tradition. If the Bible does not address the issue and there is no Tradition concerning the question? Then you use your Reason. If the Bible does not address something, there is no Tradition concerning it, and your Reason is unable to come to a conclusion, rely instead on what you have Experienced.
You will note that, in the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, there is no entry for "If you feel like the Bible is mean and disagrees with your beliefs, then well the Bible must be wrong". Quite the opposite. In such a situation, you (the generic "you)" are wrong, and thanks be to God that the Bible is there for our edification and correction. There are parts I instinctively rebel against too, and the battle to conform myself and give up on my pride is a regular one .
On the contrary - Jesus rooted his teachings on sexuality not in the Physical, but firmly in the Spiritual.
They are not "mine". They are His. That's why I'm quoting Him.
You dont seem to understand: Jesus's words were recorded by 'men.' Common ordinary men and not for a moment do I believe that Jesus or God would demand such as I wrote.
The Bible includes Jesus' words - the history of the scripture does not support a narrative wherein items like this get made up and later included.
In my real life, I avoid ignorance and hate whenever possible and that was not taught in the United Methodist Church that I grew up in either, nor was it taught by my Sunday-school-teaching father. Jesus preached love and forgiveness... no matter what homophobic followers of the past wrote....
Well, (though it's a odd qualification; I'm not sure why you brought it up), my father is a Pastor in the United Methodist Church, and he understands enough to know that, yes, indeed, the Gospels are accurate. He also knows broader Christianity enough to know that you do not love people by enabling them. Having also grown up in the United Methodist Church, attending a United Methodist college, and studying under United Methodists bishops, I also understand UMC doctrine enough to know that your Sunday-school-teaching-father should have taught you that it is their belief that Scripture is not only driven and shaped by the Holy Spirit, but the primary source for proper doctrine.
United Methodists share with other Christians the conviction that Scripture is the primary source and criterion for Christian doctrine. Through Scripture the living Christ meets us in the experience of redeeming grace. We are convinced that Jesus Christ is the living Word of God in our midst whom we trust in life and death. The biblical authors, illumined by the Holy Spirit, bear witness that in Christ the world is reconciled to God. The Bible bears authentic testimony to God’s self-disclosure in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as well as in God’s work of creation, in the pilgrimage of Israel, and in the Holy Spirit’s ongoing activity in human history....
The Bible is sacred canon for Christian people, formally acknowledged as such by historic ecumenical councils of the Church. Our doctrinal standards identify as canonical thirty-nine books of the Old Testament and the twenty-seven books of the New Testament.
Our standards affirm the Bible as the source of all that is “necessary” and “sufficient” unto salvation (Articles of Religion) and “is to be received through the Holy Spirit as the true rule and guide for faith and practice” (Confession of Faith).
The Bible is sacred canon for Christian people, formally acknowledged as such by historic ecumenical councils of the Church. Our doctrinal standards identify as canonical thirty-nine books of the Old Testament and the twenty-seven books of the New Testament.
Our standards affirm the Bible as the source of all that is “necessary” and “sufficient” unto salvation (Articles of Religion) and “is to be received through the Holy Spirit as the true rule and guide for faith and practice” (Confession of Faith).
The beliefs of the United Methodist Church stand solidly against a description of any Scripture as "homophobic".
Methodism was founded by John Wesley, his brother Charles, and, to a lesser extent, George Whitefield (they disagreed sharply on some issues, notably predestination, which the Methodist Church does not teach). The Wesleyan Quadrilateral is the description of the way in which Methodists are supposed to arrive at theological conclusions. The First and Foremost source? The Bible. If the Bible says it, there you go. If the Bible does not directly address the issue? Tradition. If the Bible does not address the issue and there is no Tradition concerning the question? Then you use your Reason. If the Bible does not address something, there is no Tradition concerning it, and your Reason is unable to come to a conclusion, rely instead on what you have Experienced.
You will note that, in the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, there is no entry for "If you feel like the Bible is mean and disagrees with your beliefs, then well the Bible must be wrong". Quite the opposite. In such a situation, you (the generic "you)" are wrong, and thanks be to God that the Bible is there for our edification and correction. There are parts I instinctively rebel against too, and the battle to conform myself and give up on my pride is a regular one .
Wantoness in Jesus's day was frowned upon for many reasons, mostly ones that had a basis in social stability. Kids born out of wedlock and women who were single and had kids were mostly unprotected. Because of this sex out of wedlock was seen as harmful to society. As was the spread of disease thru multiple partners. Men having sex was an extension of this and in the traditions of the time, they had no option to legitimize their relationship. I doubt Jesus examined it beyond that and didnt know it was not a choice.
On the contrary - Jesus rooted his teachings on sexuality not in the Physical, but firmly in the Spiritual.
Dissect it all you want....I'm not going to change my mind and you can keep your depressing, repressive beliefs yourself, they are all yours.
They are not "mine". They are His. That's why I'm quoting Him.
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