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Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discrimination?

Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

JANFU said:
266 K - would feed a lot of people. And where does it go........................
What a waste.
Lake of fire.
That is so................................................ Old Testament.
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Actually, the Lake of Fire is New Testament (Revelation chapter 20).

Have you ever read the Bible? Recommend the NIV Study Bible, or the MacArthur Study Bible. Both have lots of notes.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

chromium said:
I've no more reason to believe that than anything the pizza shop claims
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Like I said, enjoy the Kool Aid!
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

AGENT J said:
1.) well in that case EVERYTHING is subjective but in this country we have rights and a constitution and thats how our society works
2.) i dont really know how to answer this because it involves to many what ifs


are you asking me if canniblism was ok but you refused to serve them based on your religion would that be ok . . . .
im not sure . . . if cannibalism was a religion, and you served what they wanted no you would not be allowed to illegally discriminate against them based on religion and vice versa . . thats how a civil society based on freedoms, rights and out constitution works
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The underlined is what I am asking. Any rate, like I said, what I find troubling is that these things rest on people's subjective value judgements and those things can change. I say that as a black person from a part of the country that not too long ago did things legally like not allowing blacks to attend school with whites under the pretext of a Supreme Court principle of "separate but equal." That such rights rest on such a shaky ground is troubling to me.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Logicman said:
Like I said, enjoy the Kool Aid!
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that would imply i got this idea from someone else. It's entirely my own i assure you

as opposed to all the hateful biblical tirades you spew on here. Theists have been plagiarizing from that for thousands of years
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

MildSteel said:
The underlined is what I am asking.

1.) Any rate, like I said, what I find troubling is that these things rest on people's subjective value judgements and those things can change.
2.) I say that as a black person from a part of the country that not too long ago did things legally like not allowing blacks to attend school with whites under the pretext of a Supreme Court principle of "separate but equal." That such rights rest on such a shaky ground is troubling to me.
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1.) well what you are saying isnt exactly true, they do rest on peoples judgement but those things were made into a constitution and laws and rights . . . . so its a little more in depth than that. ALso why do you find the constitution, rights and laws troubling?

what is your solution, anything they are based on is going to come down to people in some way

2.) i dont see the "shaky" part . . . in 2016 it is very sound
but again how would you possible make it unshaky if constitutions, rights and laws dont do that for you?
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

AGENT J said:
1.) well what you are saying isnt exactly true, they do rest on peoples judgement but those things were made into a constitution and laws and rights . . . . so its a little more in depth than that. ALso why do you find the constitution, rights and laws troubling?

what is your solution, anything they are based on is going to come down to people in some way

2.) i dont see the "shaky" part . . . in 2016 it is very sound
but again how would you possible make it unshaky if constitutions, rights and laws dont do that for you?
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You say you don't see the shaky part, but they were doing it J. It was real. That is the world that my parents actually lived in. And for my grandparents, it was way worse.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

chromium said:
that would imply i got this idea from someone else. It's entirely my own i assure you

as opposed to all the hateful biblical tirades you spew on here. Theists have been plagiarizing from that for thousands of years
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The truth is always unwelcome and hateful to the Kool Aid crowd. Well, too bad.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

MildSteel said:
You say you don't see the shaky part, but they were doing it J. It was real. That is the world that my parents actually lived in. And for my grandparents, it was way worse.
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yes i know and they fixed it, and are still fixing it and now adding sexual orientation to it is even further fixing it this is why i dont see the shaky part. especially for race.
Gays WERE on the shakey part, now its probably more like a wobble and soon it will be a more secure footing, heck this summer SSM is going to go national.

ALso you didnt answer one question

what is your solution, anything they are based on is going to come down to people in some way
how would you possible make it unshaky if constitutions, rights and laws dont do that for you?
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

MildSteel said:
I don't agree with these laws, on the other hand, don't you think people have a right to insulate themselves from things that the feel are wrong?
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Yes, if I don't like you or for that matter anything you do I have a right to insulate myself from you. Period

That we agree on.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Amadeus said:
Huckabee: Gay-Rights Movement 'Won't Stop Until There Are No Churches'



Edit: Why aren't polls auto-selected on this forum so that people don't accidentally post threads without polls?
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That's total garbage and most Christians that can actually use their brains (not fogged by an extremist dogma) dont buy into such crap.

My faith is stronger than any threats from outside influences....too bad there are those of such weak faith that believe they are threatened.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

JANFU said:
Ambiguous- well many would fit that, same as large numbers meets the criteria
When it comes down to it Wiki is well??????????????????
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I didn't quote Wiki because it is statistical proof, but because they also use the term 'many Christians' and outline similar qualities to what I've described.
Not asking you to rush, if time permits look around.
If not I am fine with that as well.
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I probably won't unless seriously challenged. I just don't think the term 'many Christians' is really in dispute.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Logicman said:
Tsk, tsk...

Well, your "Christian" friend obviously never heard of Luke 13:3. Because if by the time she dies she hasn't repented of any gay sex sins she's committed she won't have to like her eternal fate.
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People use religion to suit their agenda and their personality. If they are of good character and intent, they will focus on the positive scripture and output a positive message. You are of poor character, so you focus on the punishment / suffering aspect of God, and put forth a hateful message.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Amadeus said:
People use religion to suit their agenda and their personality. If they are of good character and intent, they will focus on the positive scripture and output a positive message. You are of poor character, so you focus on the punishment / suffering aspect of God, and put forth a hateful message.
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I knew you weren't going to embrace Luke 13:3 ("But unless you repent, you too will perish") for your gay friends. Why do you think Jesus warned people to repent?

You're the one patting the gay sex sinners on the back telling them they've done nothing wrong - that they don't need to repent. Then they wind up in Hell after the Judgment (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Rev. 21:8, etc.). With friends like you who needs enemies?

I tell people the truth and the wise repent and receive eternal life.

And that's what's wrong with your politically correct moral relativism. It sends people to Hell. And I'm the bad guy?
 
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Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Logicman said:
I knew you weren't going to embrace Luke 13:3 ("But unless you repent, you too will perish") for your gay friends. Why do you think Jesus warned people to repent?
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Well, Jesus was a progressive and a reformer (of his own religion) and had an evolving opinion about many social issues. And since Jesus set up the laws by which people are governed, it makes sense that he has since evolved on gay issues.

Does he still command that children be put to death for being disobedient? Of course not.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

AGENT J said:
yes i know and they fixed it, and are still fixing it and now adding sexual orientation to it is even further fixing it this is why i dont see the shaky part. especially for race.
Gays WERE on the shakey part, now its probably more like a wobble and soon it will be a more secure footing, heck this summer SSM is going to go national.
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I disagree with you. What is shakey is that it depends on the subjective opinion of people with power at a particular time. And although you say "were" people are still discriminating based on race. There is no "were" to it. It may not be as overt as it used to be, but it is still there.
AGENT J said:
ALso you didnt answer one question

what is your solution, anything they are based on is going to come down to people in some way
how would you possible make it unshaky if constitutions, rights and laws dont do that for you?
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It does not have a mundane solution that is not shakey. The only real solution is a real spiritual experience. Otherwise it will be shakey because it depends on fallible, mundane people.

Having said that, because people will not go there, laws and rights need to be there. But that is a shakey solution.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Born Free said:
Yes, if I don't like you or for that matter anything you do I have a right to insulate myself from you. Period

That we agree on.
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You may have that right, but you are violating someone else's rights when you discriminate against them and fail to provide them a service at your place of business. In that case the person's rights to not be subjected to such discrimination trumps your rights to insulate yourself in that way. Furthermore, those who refuse to serve people based on their sexual orientation in that name of religion, are doing so under a misguided understanding of religious principles, because they are violating the religious principles of tolerance and mercy. Jesus taught tolerance, mercy, and loving others as you love yourself.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

MildSteel said:
You may have that right, but you are violating someone else's rights when you discriminate against them and fail to provide them a service at your place of business. In that case the person's rights to not be subjected to such discrimination trumps your rights to insulate yourself in that way. Furthermore, those who refuse to serve people based on their sexual orientation in that name of religion, are doing so under a misguided understanding of religious principles, because they are violating the religious principles of tolerance and mercy. Jesus taught tolerance, mercy, and loving others as you love yourself.
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And it's not a violation of someone's rights to force them to participate in an activity which runs counter to the tenets of their faith? One way street much? :roll:
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

countryboy said:
And it's not a violation of someone's rights to force them to participate in an activity which runs counter to the tenets of their faith? One way street much? :roll:
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If you're a baker who advertised his baking services, it isn't violating your religion to bake what you advertised. Wal-Mart can't follow you home and make sure you aren't using that KY jelly to masturbate. No one is forcing Christians to get gay married, they're simply saying if you advertise a service you can't deny it to someone based on their sexual orientation. That's discrimination, not a violation of your religion.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say you can't interact economically with homosexuals. Why doesn't it violate their religion to sell me, an atheist, a pizza?
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

azgreg said:
Huckabee has lost his ****ing mind.
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I have to agree, gays don't want catholic marriages, they want marriages. Nobody can force a church to marry someone because that right to decide is purely down to the church itself and nobody else. Gay people do not to destroy religion, if for no other reason than that it is impossible to do that seeing that almost 4 out of 5 Americans is a Christian.

This is just fearmongering to preach to the already converted. This is for the anti-gay foaming at the mouth crowd IMHO and not for the regular Conservative/American.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Amadeus said:
I would believe you if Christians cared as much about adultery and fornication as they do about gays and finding ways to legally thumb them in the eye. Mind you, having gay sex isn't even on God's top ten things not to do. Yet it is first place in the minds of many Christians on the conservative side.
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So why is it on the homosexual top ten to discriminate against Christians? I hear the pizza restaurant in IN even got death threats.
Huck may be a nut, or may be not, I don't know him well enough to say. Let him speak just as everyone else is entitled to their opinions.
Everyone seems to cheer when someone speaks out against Christians. May be he has a point, although he could have made a better argument.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

MildSteel said:
1.)I disagree with you. What is shakey is that it depends on the subjective opinion of people with power at a particular time. And although you say "were" people are still discriminating based on race. There is no "were" to it. It may not be as overt as it used to be, but it is still there.
2.)It does not have a mundane solution that is not shakey.
3.) The only real solution is a real spiritual experience.
4.) Otherwise it will be shakey because it depends on fallible, mundane people.
5.)Having said that, because people will not go there, laws and rights need to be there. But that is a shakey solution.
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1.) you are free to disagree but you havent given one solution that is better, ANd the word were is still accurate because even though some still do it, its 1000X better. ANd it wasnt MY word it was YOURS. If it wasnt better you wouldnt have used it yourself. Its never going away.
2.) this is not an answer. You call it mundane im asking what is better and you havent provided anything?
3.) what does this mean, were people not spiritual in you grandparents day? they were so what does this mean
4.) same as #3 this is meaningless with out further explanation.

tell me the answer how would you do it so it isnt shakey since the Constitution, laws and rights arent good enough for you.

5.) see 3 and 4, you keep calling it shakey but cant provide how to improve it.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

If those who love to wrap themselves with the name "Christian" would live his teachings instead of perverting them and taking his name in vain....there would be no conflict.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

countryboy said:
And it's not a violation of someone's rights to force them to participate in an activity which runs counter to the tenets of their faith? One way street much? :roll:
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no because there is no real force. Many court cases have already proved this already.
Its also not a one way street by any dishonest stretch of the imagine because those same rights and anti-discrimination laws protect me as a Christian also. We all must play by the same rules and rights in a civil society based on rights and a constitution, my Christianity doesnt get me special treatment.

If i make up subjective rules for myself or believe in subjective rules for myself its MY job to makes sure theres no conflicts in the things i CHOOSE in life like operating a business to the same regulated standards as everybody else. I dont get to just involve myself in whatever i want and break the rules and laws and violate peoples rights cause i feel like it. THats just dumb. SO there is no one way street, those rules protect me and my faith just as much.
 
Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

Amadeus said:
I would believe you if Christians cared as much about adultery and fornication as they do about gays and finding ways to legally thumb them in the eye. Mind you, having gay sex isn't even on God's top ten things not to do. Yet it is first place in the minds of many Christians on the conservative side.
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I think you are confusing the most public point of contention with "first place in the minds of many Christians". This is known as the Availability Heuristic, and is a common logical fallacy.
 
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