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Thread: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discrimination?

  1. #191
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It was a question....I implied no such thing.
    ah. Alright then. Well, I would answer accordingly - Atheists deserve to have their Rights of Conscience respected as much as I.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Who knows? Are they asked?
    That would be covered during pre-marital counseling, if they are going through a Church.

    It's not a requirement for the marriage apparently.
    It would be if you wanted me to support it.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Sorry, I don't listen to that. Don't some in the Nine Inch Nail crowd think the murderer Che Guevara is cool? If so that's not at all cool.

    " Poster boy Che Guevara was particularly keen on "reeducating" gay and effeminate men and dispatched thousands, without charge or trial, to concentration camps."

    Read more: Articles: What Would Che Think of Same-Sex Marriage?
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  4. #194
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Actually He did.

    (Matthew 19:12) For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.


    In the previous paragraph, Jesus gives us His view of marriage:
    (Matthew 19:3-6) And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”



    We all have our temptations, many of which are woven into our genetic makeup, and many of which are malleable (as is sexuality). That isn't an excuse for us to fall to them, we retain agency.




    He did that, too, and not just for Homosexuals:
    (Matthew 19:9) And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity,[a] and marries another, commits adultery.





    Well, your "Christian" belief is at odds with what Christ taught. If you are truly seeking to avoid conforming to the world but rather conform yourself to Him by allowing yourself to be corrected in your thoughts, words, and deeds by Biblical truth, then you may want to spend some time praying on that.

    I don't like some of it either, to be honest, but it is what it is, and the discrepancy is not His fault, but my own.
    You dont seem to understand: Jesus's words were recorded by 'men.' Common ordinary men and not for a moment do I believe that Jesus or God would demand such as I wrote.

    If you choose to believe such interpretations in the overall tone and words and messages of God, that's your choice.

    In my real life, I avoid ignorance and hate whenever possible and that was not taught in the United Methodist Church that I grew up in either, nor was it taught by my Sunday-school-teaching father. Jesus preached love and forgiveness...and no matter what homophobic followers of the past wrote....he would not have condemned homosexuality today.

    Wantoness in Jesus's day was frowned upon for many reasons, mostly ones that had a basis in social stability. Kids born out of wedlock and women who were single and had kids were mostly unprotected. Because of this sex out of wedlock was seen as harmful to society. As was the spread of disease thru multiple partners. Men having sex was an extension of this and in the traditions of the time, they had no option to legitimize their relationship. I doubt Jesus examined it beyond that and didnt know it was not a choice.

    Dissect it all you want....I'm not going to change my mind and you can keep your depressing, repressive beliefs yourself, they are all yours.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #195
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That would be covered during pre-marital counseling, if they are going through a Church.
    Not all churches have pre-marital counselling.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #196
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, extremist activist elements demanded SSM and society came out in defense of traditional marriage.

    "society" is all of us. Within "society", the folks who are the aggressors are the ones who wanted (demanded) change - in this case, the liberal left. The Christian communities and conservative communities were responding to that.
    So only extremists believe that gays should be able to marry?

    And those that fight for equality in America are aggressors (well, maybe. Fighting for equality is noble IMO)?

    ha ha ha. Seriously, April Fools was 2 days ago.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #197
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, extremist activist elements demanded SSM and society came out in defense of traditional marriage.

    "society" is all of us. Within "society", the folks who are the aggressors are the ones who wanted (demanded) change - in this case, the liberal left. The Christian communities and conservative communities were responding to that.
    sorry but the reality is millions of conservatives, Christians and people on the right support equal rights
    also fighting for equal rights is not aggression thats the most mentally retarded backwards "claim" i ever heard, the aggression is the denial of equal rights and the assault on equality.
    lol I guess when a person is on the ground being kicked if they kicked back they are the aggressor too? riiiiiiiight.
    damn minorities and women being aggressors and wanting equal right! lol
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    I haven't heard that until now. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

    On the other hand the Bible and the message of Christ himself is offensive to many.
    Myself it is the battle we face between good and evil.
    What Is the Book of Revelation About?

    Interpretation
    Revelation often seems bizarre and incomprehensible. But understanding the apocalyptic genre, the history of the early Christians, the persecutions they faced, their fears, and the issues they debated makes it much clearer. Many of the images and symbols parallel those in Old Testament books such as Daniel. Others allude to people, places and events that were very familiar to the first century Christians of Asia Minor. Extensive research in these areas has given Bible scholars a good understanding of what John's visions were intended to mean and how they would have been understood by their original audience in Asia Minor.
    The Book of Revelation

    Its meaning is positive, not fearful or terrifying to those who serve God. While many associate the word “apocalypse” with great disaster, the book of Revelation begins and ends by saying that those who read, understand, and apply its message would be happy for doing so.—Revelation 1:3; 22:7.

    Revelation uses many “signs,” or symbols, that are not to be understood literally.—Revelation 1:1.

    Even so, many different shades of interpretation are possible, and there is still considerable debate about the meaning of some of the symbols and images. Many of the scenes in Revelation convey a strong sense of God's infinite power and glory, and that may be its most important message of al
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

  9. #199
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    OK, then why are there no objections to marry or remarry adulterers and fornicators? Marrying people that were convicted of murder, rape, pedophilia? Or serving such people (and these things are often known in communities)?

    Not only that, there have been active public well-financed campaigns, by religious organizations to STOP SSM...I'm not aware of them engaging in the same thing regarding the other major sins I just mentioned.


    So while I do 'recognize' that people want to object...*say* they are objecting...on religious grounds, I believe that in 99% of the cases they are full of BS and just selectively and hypocritically rejecting gays.


    Many churches do object to remarriage by those known to have committed adultery or whatnot. I know of preachers who have been "defrocked" for adultery. I also know of churches that do not allow anyone to be a deacon or other church officer if they are known to be "living in sin" in some manner.

    A buddy of mine and his wife were living together for a year before they got married. During their pre-marital counceling with the pastor, he was quite clear that what they were doing was wrong. He further required them to acknowledge that and to live apart and celibate for three months before he would consent to perform the wedding in church.

    Many churches have such standards, including many mainline (not considered Evangelical or fundamentalist) churches.


    You know why you don't know about it? Because the media doesn't consider it newsworthy.



    As for your final remark, I can't speak for anyone but myself when I say my sole objection to SSM is based on a sense of religious obligation to view it as a sin, based on the Bible. Even so, I do not actively oppose it politically... I just want to be left out of it.
    Last edited by Goshin; 04-03-15 at 01:59 PM.

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  10. #200
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Many churches do object to remarriage by those known to have committed adultery or whatnot. I know of preachers who have been "defrocked" for adultery. I also know of churches that do not allow anyone to be a deacon or other church officer if they are known to be "living in sin" in some manner.

    A buddy of mine and his wife were living together for a year before they got married. During their pre-marital counceling with the pastor, he was quite clear that what they were doing was wrong. He further required them to acknowledge that and to live apart and celibate for three months before he would consent to perform the wedding in church.

    Many churches have such standards, including many mainline (not considered Evangelical or fundamentalist) churches.


    You know why you don't know about it? Because the media doesn't consider it newsworthy.



    As for your final remark, I can't speak for anyone but myself when I say my sole objection to SSM is based on a sense of religious obligation to view it as a sin, based on the Bible. Even so, I do not actively oppose it politically... I just want to be left out of it.
    I did say that the Catholic Church still does not marry adulterers.

    But all of them marry fornicators.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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