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Thread: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discrimination?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I don't think that you read what I said.
    Of course I did, don't be silly.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That is a complete distortion of Jesus based on his teachings. Christians who live in faithfulness would not run up against the world at all.
    That's an interesting claim. Jesus said pretty much the exact opposite:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus
    (John 15:18-22) If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.

    (John 7:7) The world cannot hate you [Jesus' brothers, who did not believe in Him], but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.

    (John 16:33) I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.

    (Mark 13:13 / Matthew 10:22) You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

    In the rest of the NT, Jesus' teachings that faithful Christians can expect the World to turn on them is expounded on:

    John 3:19-20 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

    James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

    1 John 3:1, 13 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him.... Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you.



    Christians are, in fact, taught to be wary of, if not to outright reject, the Spirit of the World:

    1 Cor 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

    Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

    James 1:27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    1 Jon 2:15-16 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

    1 John 4:5-6 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.



    There are many, I would say the vast majority, of Christians who live fully his teachings and have no conflict.
    Jesus and the rest of the New Testament Authors would disagree.

    Most Christians are good people who live his teachings...
    Actually, as Christianity will be the first to tell you, all Christians are bad people. But, then, all people (with one exception) are bad people.

    they are almost never the ones who proclaim themselves "Christian".
    If they do not proclaim themselves to be Christians, then they are not Christians.

    Romans 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-03-15 at 09:36 AM.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  3. #123
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Nope. Christianity will survive when the pro-gay bullies have been judged immoral and cast into the Lake of Fire.

    What I love today is the $266K raised so far for the Memories Pizza place.
    Oh ****, you believe that fairy tale ****, lol.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #124
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That's an interesting claim. Jesus said pretty much the exact opposite:




    In the rest of the NT, Jesus' teachings that faithful Christians can expect the World to turn on them is expounded on:

    John 3:19-20This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

    James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

    1 John 3:1, 13 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him.... Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you.



    Christians are, in fact, taught to be wary of, if not to outright reject, the Spirit of the World:

    1 Cor 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

    Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

    James 1:27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    1 Jon 2:15-16 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

    1 John 4:5-6 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.





    Jesus and the rest of the New Testament Authors would disagree.



    Actually, as Christianity will be the first to tell you, all Christians are bad people. But, then, all people (with one exception) are bad people.



    If they do not proclaim themselves to be Christians, then they are not Christians.

    Romans 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

    Simple: Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you. Christ got the point. Most so called "Christians" miss it completely.

  5. #125
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Of course I did, don't be silly.
    I don't think so.

  6. #126
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If the objection was to homosexuality then it should not be limited to wedding day service. The idea that supplying goods/services to sinners is participating in a sin is quite a stretch.
    Yes. It's also a strawman. No one is saying "we don't want to serve sinners". In the Christian worldview, that would mean zero customers, up to and including the business owner. We are saying "we will not take part in activities that violate our faith."

    Goshin (Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discrimination?) put it well, as he usually does.


    To build on his example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin
    Say the rep for the Local Swingers 101 Club came by my restaurant, and said his group was having a big three-day event at a local hotel, featuring spouse-swapping and an orgy, and wanted my restaurant to cater and serve at the event.

    Biblically, that's a sin... I'd want the right to refuse service on that basis.
    If, however, the Local Swingers 101 Rep came by the restaurant, sat down at a table, and ordered the New York Strip with a fully-loaded potato (for some reason, Goshin strikes me as a steak and potatoes kind of guy), Goshin would serve him as readily as any of his other guests. It's not the identity - it's the activity.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    3.) what does this mean, were people not spiritual in you grandparents day? they were so what does this mean
    It means that when people have a genuine spiritual experience they will love God with all of the heart, mind and soul. As a result of this love of God they will truly love their fellow man so much that they will actually they will naturally turn the other cheek if someone else delivers a blow, go the extra mile of someone else makes them go one, and beg for forgiveness on behalf of someone who might be doing something so extreme as killing them by nailing them to a cross. So yes, that spiritual experience would make them not want to discriminate against someone else in their place of business based on their sexual orientation. It simply won't be in their heart to do such a thing. So that is the real solution. Everything else is shakey because it depends on mundane, fallible people.

  8. #128
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Simple: Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you. Christ got the point. Most so called "Christians" miss it completely.
    All Christians miss it at times, none miss it completely.

    And if I were trapped in a sin, I would absolutely want my fellow man to A) refuse to enable me in it and B) if possible, try to help me out of it. They would be loving me by doing so.



    You are correct (broadly) that Legalism is a temptation for many (not just Christians). You are simply wrong to conflate Legalism with recognizing sinful activity. Legalism is the idea that the path to salvation lies through following the law, usually with gradations of spiritual failure. Christianity teaches that all sin, and all need the redemption purchased by the Blood of Christ - the Doctrine of Sin is not only not legalism, it is a critical part of the rejection of legalism.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-03-15 at 09:48 AM.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If the objection was to homosexuality then it should not be limited to wedding day service. The idea that supplying goods/services to sinners is participating in a sin is quite a stretch.
    I strongly disagree. If I were asked to cater a fundraiser for Planned Parenthood, I would be supporting abortion on demand, and this would be a grave hypocrisy.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Simple: Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you. Christ got the point. Most so called "Christians" miss it completely.
    I agree.

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