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Thread: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discrimination?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    yes i know and they fixed it, and are still fixing it and now adding sexual orientation to it is even further fixing it this is why i dont see the shaky part. especially for race.
    Gays WERE on the shakey part, now its probably more like a wobble and soon it will be a more secure footing, heck this summer SSM is going to go national.
    I disagree with you. What is shakey is that it depends on the subjective opinion of people with power at a particular time. And although you say "were" people are still discriminating based on race. There is no "were" to it. It may not be as overt as it used to be, but it is still there.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post

    ALso you didnt answer one question

    what is your solution, anything they are based on is going to come down to people in some way
    how would you possible make it unshaky if constitutions, rights and laws dont do that for you?
    It does not have a mundane solution that is not shakey. The only real solution is a real spiritual experience. Otherwise it will be shakey because it depends on fallible, mundane people.

    Having said that, because people will not go there, laws and rights need to be there. But that is a shakey solution.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Yes, if I don't like you or for that matter anything you do I have a right to insulate myself from you. Period

    That we agree on.
    You may have that right, but you are violating someone else's rights when you discriminate against them and fail to provide them a service at your place of business. In that case the person's rights to not be subjected to such discrimination trumps your rights to insulate yourself in that way. Furthermore, those who refuse to serve people based on their sexual orientation in that name of religion, are doing so under a misguided understanding of religious principles, because they are violating the religious principles of tolerance and mercy. Jesus taught tolerance, mercy, and loving others as you love yourself.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You may have that right, but you are violating someone else's rights when you discriminate against them and fail to provide them a service at your place of business. In that case the person's rights to not be subjected to such discrimination trumps your rights to insulate yourself in that way. Furthermore, those who refuse to serve people based on their sexual orientation in that name of religion, are doing so under a misguided understanding of religious principles, because they are violating the religious principles of tolerance and mercy. Jesus taught tolerance, mercy, and loving others as you love yourself.
    And it's not a violation of someone's rights to force them to participate in an activity which runs counter to the tenets of their faith? One way street much?

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    And it's not a violation of someone's rights to force them to participate in an activity which runs counter to the tenets of their faith? One way street much?
    If you're a baker who advertised his baking services, it isn't violating your religion to bake what you advertised. Wal-Mart can't follow you home and make sure you aren't using that KY jelly to masturbate. No one is forcing Christians to get gay married, they're simply saying if you advertise a service you can't deny it to someone based on their sexual orientation. That's discrimination, not a violation of your religion.

    Nowhere in the Bible does it say you can't interact economically with homosexuals. Why doesn't it violate their religion to sell me, an atheist, a pizza?
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    Huckabee has lost his ****ing mind.
    I have to agree, gays don't want catholic marriages, they want marriages. Nobody can force a church to marry someone because that right to decide is purely down to the church itself and nobody else. Gay people do not to destroy religion, if for no other reason than that it is impossible to do that seeing that almost 4 out of 5 Americans is a Christian.

    This is just fearmongering to preach to the already converted. This is for the anti-gay foaming at the mouth crowd IMHO and not for the regular Conservative/American.
    Wilders is a piece of gutter trash, a gutless populist who has no morality to speak of.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I would believe you if Christians cared as much about adultery and fornication as they do about gays and finding ways to legally thumb them in the eye. Mind you, having gay sex isn't even on God's top ten things not to do. Yet it is first place in the minds of many Christians on the conservative side.
    So why is it on the homosexual top ten to discriminate against Christians? I hear the pizza restaurant in IN even got death threats.
    Huck may be a nut, or may be not, I don't know him well enough to say. Let him speak just as everyone else is entitled to their opinions.
    Everyone seems to cheer when someone speaks out against Christians. May be he has a point, although he could have made a better argument.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    1.)I disagree with you. What is shakey is that it depends on the subjective opinion of people with power at a particular time. And although you say "were" people are still discriminating based on race. There is no "were" to it. It may not be as overt as it used to be, but it is still there.
    2.)It does not have a mundane solution that is not shakey.
    3.) The only real solution is a real spiritual experience.
    4.) Otherwise it will be shakey because it depends on fallible, mundane people.
    5.)Having said that, because people will not go there, laws and rights need to be there. But that is a shakey solution.
    1.) you are free to disagree but you havent given one solution that is better, ANd the word were is still accurate because even though some still do it, its 1000X better. ANd it wasnt MY word it was YOURS. If it wasnt better you wouldnt have used it yourself. Its never going away.
    2.) this is not an answer. You call it mundane im asking what is better and you havent provided anything?
    3.) what does this mean, were people not spiritual in you grandparents day? they were so what does this mean
    4.) same as #3 this is meaningless with out further explanation.

    tell me the answer how would you do it so it isnt shakey since the Constitution, laws and rights arent good enough for you.

    5.) see 3 and 4, you keep calling it shakey but cant provide how to improve it.
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    If those who love to wrap themselves with the name "Christian" would live his teachings instead of perverting them and taking his name in vain....there would be no conflict.

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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    And it's not a violation of someone's rights to force them to participate in an activity which runs counter to the tenets of their faith? One way street much?
    no because there is no real force. Many court cases have already proved this already.
    Its also not a one way street by any dishonest stretch of the imagine because those same rights and anti-discrimination laws protect me as a Christian also. We all must play by the same rules and rights in a civil society based on rights and a constitution, my Christianity doesnt get me special treatment.

    If i make up subjective rules for myself or believe in subjective rules for myself its MY job to makes sure theres no conflicts in the things i CHOOSE in life like operating a business to the same regulated standards as everybody else. I dont get to just involve myself in whatever i want and break the rules and laws and violate peoples rights cause i feel like it. THats just dumb. SO there is no one way street, those rules protect me and my faith just as much.
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    Re: Is it wise for Christians to link the survival of Christianity to gay discriminat

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I would believe you if Christians cared as much about adultery and fornication as they do about gays and finding ways to legally thumb them in the eye. Mind you, having gay sex isn't even on God's top ten things not to do. Yet it is first place in the minds of many Christians on the conservative side.
    I think you are confusing the most public point of contention with "first place in the minds of many Christians". This is known as the Availability Heuristic, and is a common logical fallacy.
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