View Poll Results: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

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    4 13.79%
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Thread: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu? [W:144]

  1. #51
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    What about a poll asking us to declare if we think American Atheists oppose the Israeli elected PM?

    What do American Buddhists think about it? What about bi-polar American Islanders? What do American-Australians think?

  2. #52
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So then non-Jewish American Conservative Evangelicals supposedly have a connection with Israeli Jews, while American Jews don't???

    Bibi doesn't even have the support of the majority of Israeli Jews. He simply has a plurality of support. As to connections that American Jews have with Israeli Jews. My Jewish neighbor back in Arkansas parents had been in concentration camps. I had another Jewish friend that had served in the IDF. I think you will find that Jews in America do have ties to Jews in Israel.
    In fact, most do not. Some do, but not most.

  3. #53
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I disagree. Although it may be true that most American Jews arrived before the Nazis took power, many experienced plenty of mistreatment and pogroms, others foresaw what was coming with the Nazis, and many left behind relatives that didn't survive the holocaust. In addition there has always been plenty of anti-Jewish bigotry in the USA, especially before the mid-1960s. Many (perhaps most) Jews have been in situations where Christians don't know they are Jewish and start talking freely about their hatred and/or jealousy. There are always a couple of incidents of anti-Jewish violence in the USA every year. That is why nearly all Jews, secular or not, are aware that they are always at risk for being targets of scapegoating. It is an essential part of Jewish culture. For some, those experiences made them strong supporters of a militant Israel. For others, those experiences made them strong opponents of all kinds of hatred, bigotry and discrimination, including against Palestinians. It also should be remembered that the Zionist movement was never popular with all Jews.

    People who pay attention and read between the lines know that much of the purported support for Israel among fundamentalist Christians and other militaristic conservatives is really about fulfilling Biblical prophecy for an armageddon, increasing the USA's power over the middle east and general hatred of Muslims.
    Again, most people who define themselves as "Christian" have no clue about Armageddon. There are three primary reasons people support Israel. 1.) the holocaust. 2.) terrorism by Muslim radicals in general and 3.) for many Christians because Jews are "God's chosen people." Only a small group of end-times fundamentalists give any thought to armageddon.

    You should read about Armageddon. It isn't about the Jews. It is Christian prophesy about the return of Jesus and an a big war. It isn't really Jewish prophesy or about Jews. It's about Christians.

    Even among fundamentalist "rapture" Christians, they fear Armageddon rather than push for it. It is radical Muslims who proactively push for Armageddon and for them Jews do factor into it. For American end-timers, Russia figures into it. Both believe the big major battle will be in the ME.

  4. #54
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    The majority of American Jews do not know who Netanyahu is.

  5. #55
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I didn't say that fundamentalist Christians, militaristic conservatives and Muslim-haters are the only supporters of Israel.
    I didn't say you said so either. You said that "many" of these 72% (Which is what? 230,000,000 people?) are fundamentalist Christians, militaristic conservatives and Muslim-haters.

    Many people, including myself, support the continued existence of Israel without supporting all of their policies, esp Netanyahu's and others policies concerning the treatment of Palestinians and militaristic expansionism.
    Militaristic expansionism is a policy that Israel has never held, and a proof to that would be the withdrawal from the Sinai peninsula in return for peace with Egypt.
    Supporting a state's continued existence is meaningless. I support Iran's continued existence, doesn't make me a pro-Iranian does it now. It's only in Israel's relation that such terms somehow become expressions of support. Don't be mistaken, there are more than enough people who couldn't have a bigger wish than to see Israel destroyed, but still.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I didn't say you said so either. You said that "many" of these 72% (Which is what? 230,000,000 people?) are fundamentalist Christians, militaristic conservatives and Muslim-haters.



    Militaristic expansionism is a policy that Israel has never held, and a proof to that would be the withdrawal from the Sinai peninsula in return for peace with Egypt.
    Supporting a state's continued existence is meaningless. I support Iran's continued existence, doesn't make me a pro-Iranian does it now. It's only in Israel's relation that such terms somehow become expressions of support. Don't be mistaken, there are more than enough people who couldn't have a bigger wish than to see Israel destroyed, but still.
    Jews are about the only people who have never had an expansionist policy. Once they had "God's Promise Land" they had all they wanted in terms of nationhood. That has not changed for over 2,900 years since they first fought for the land that is - once again - the TINY country of Israel.

  7. #57
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So claim to be a Jew declaring the holocaust and the 3000 year history of killing Jews is all a lie?

    Not for a second do I believe you are a Jew and the notion of a Jewish holocaust denier as you just declared yourself to be is absurd.

    Here's a clue. Pretending to be a Jew and then raging that those who talk of the holocaust and oppression of Jews are liars isn't going to work. Your's isn't even a nice try. I suppose next you're claim your black and post about racial discrimination.
    I don't know what kind of weird savior complex you have, but you aren't defending Jews at all. You're slandering us. The only person in this entire thread whose comments are anti-semetic are yours. You may not deny the holocaust (though how in your mind I said anything to suggest that I do is beyond me), but you twist it to create a narrative that fits nicely with the American right wing's pro-Christian agenda. There is nothing pro-Jew in that narrative. It uses Judaism is a tool to further its control over the Middle East, in favor of a Christian dominant narrative, and to further Christian myths about the end of the world.

    No, you don't deny the violence that has befallen Jews, though I imagine you'll deny the anti-semetism that I have had to face in my life, because apparently I wasn't born and raised Jewish if Joko says I wasn't, but you deny any meaning to that suffering. You deny any autonomy and self-determination on the part of Jews if it doesn't fit your narrative. You don't respect people who are different from you enough to acknowledge that they can think differently from you. And you fall back on the trite "no, you!" nonsense that the right wing uses to deflect from its own bigotry.

    You do not speak for us. You do not know us. And you'll kindly stop pretending that you do.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  8. #58
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I understand all of that. As does any literate person with any historical knowledge at all. However it doesn't change the fact that primarily the reasons why there are not that many Jews in the world is the fact that: 1. They were decimated during the holocaust. And. 2. They don't proselytize. No religion, persecuted or not, will grow very much if it doesn't proselytize and try to convert others.

    All that is neither here nor there though because it doesn't change the fact your original premise is predicated on the notion that somehow one of the most educated demographics in America are ignorant of Jewish history.
    This is what I actual posted:

    "Few American Jews have any ancestry or direct linkage to the holocaust and have been safely within the USA so long they have no memory of the reason their ancestor's fled to the USA, just like many others of different ethnicity who came to the USA to escape do not."

    Once again, you left off the greatest reason - the historic murdering of ethnic/racial Jews everywhere. More than 6 millions Jews have been murdered in history than the holocaust. Killing 10,000 people 200 years ago more reduces long term population growth than killing 1,000 people now.

    You really do not understand the historic scope, the full count, of attrocities in world history against Jews. In all of Eastern Europe. Western Europe. Russia. The Mediterranian region. By the Greeks. By the Persians. By the Ottomans. In The Middle East and Persian Gulf region - for hundreds and hundreds of years. 10,000 here. 25,000 there. 100,000. 1,000,000. 50,000. In each region those particular surviving Jews fled from into a new area because it seems safe there numbers then would grow as populations do - and then still the next genocide would come. Every region of the world they went to decade after decade, century after century.

    The holocaust was the most recent and largest singular genocide. However, the total of the holocaust does not equate to the prior totals of organized Jew-murdering. And the more recent such genocide, the less it affects what the population is now.

    Just the Romans in one action killed nearly 1,000,000 Jews over 1500 years ago. How many Jews would their now be if all those 1,000,000 had children back then thru today? But for worldwide systematic killing of Jews, the Jewish population would number over a billion instead of 14,000,000 - of which 88% now are limited to the USA and Israel.

    How much were the populations reduced? In Afghanistan the number of Jews is exactly 1. In most ME Muslim countries a few thousand at the most. Yet in the past there were entire Jewish cities. They did not become Muslims. Some managed to flee. Most were killed. Everywhere. Always. That meant no future population growth for those people, doesn't it?

    Yet I do think most people think like you do, that it was really only the holocaust. Hell, Russians have killed - over history - around 1.5 million Jews. They then didn't contribute to population growth either, did they?

    The 1st or 2nd largest Jewish population remaining (depending whose numbers you believe) in the USA are dwindling primarily by marrying non-Jews combined with have ceased to engage in the Jewish religion and Jewish rituals - and accordingly then abandoning Jewish linkage and identity in any real sense. They will say "I am Jewish" - even if only a distant relative - but that is the only way they are Jewish, in some remote technical sense only.

  9. #59
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I don't know what kind of weird savior complex you have, but you aren't defending Jews at all. You're slandering us. The only person in this entire thread whose comments are anti-semetic are yours. You may not deny the holocaust (though how in your mind I said anything to suggest that I do is beyond me), but you twist it to create a narrative that fits nicely with the American right wing's pro-Christian agenda. There is nothing pro-Jew in that narrative. It uses Judaism is a tool to further its control over the Middle East, in favor of a Christian dominant narrative, and to further Christian myths about the end of the world.

    No, you don't deny the violence that has befallen Jews, though I imagine you'll deny the anti-semetism that I have had to face in my life, because apparently I wasn't born and raised Jewish if Joko says I wasn't, but you deny any meaning to that suffering. You deny any autonomy and self-determination on the part of Jews if it doesn't fit your narrative. You don't respect people who are different from you enough to acknowledge that they can think differently from you. And you fall back on the trite "no, you!" nonsense that the right wing uses to deflect from its own bigotry.

    You do not speak for us. You do not know us. And you'll kindly stop pretending that you do.
    You faux indignation is a joke. You claimed that the my pointing out the history of attrocities against Jews is a lie - you a holocaust denier. You now declare Jews are some superpower controlling the entire ME - joining in the historic blame-Jews-for-everything routine. If there is anything to your claim of being Jewish, your messages are the worst form of "the self hating Jew" I've ever read.

    And then you try to throw some self-pity you were picked on as a Jew in the USA crap at me. I could play the self-pity-bigotry about myself far more than you, but never do because it's nothing.

    Are you an Israeli Jew? No. Are any rockets going to land on your home? No. Anyone vowed to kill you? No. Are you surrounded by nations wanting your country destroyed? No. Discriminated against in housing? On the forum? In employment? In anything? No.

    You are NOT one of "us" of Israeli Jews anymore than I am. So your "we" crap is just that, BS crap.

    I suppose you could be a holocaust denying Jew - because some relative in your past is Jewish - who believes Jews are responsible for all the chaos and death, all the wars, clan and tribal wars, endless killings between Shia and Sunni, and everything else you blame on Jews - but claiming you are Jewish so that horrific collection of lies has greater authority? Hell no.

    I have 100% exactly as much at stake as you do regarding Israel, don't I?

    Or is it that you are claiming the Jews of Israel are stupid hapless victims being used by Pentacostal Christians to dominate the world because those Jews are just that stupid? How many ways, exactly, do you despise and condemn the Jews of Israel?
    Last edited by joko104; 04-02-15 at 05:05 PM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Do the majority of U.S. Jews support Netanyahu?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You faux indignation is a joke. You claimed that the my pointing out the history of attrocities against Jews is a lie - you a holocaust denier. You now declare Jews are some superpower controlling the entire ME - joining in the historic blame-Jews-for-everything routine. If there is anything to your claim of being Jewish, your messages are the worst form of "the self hating Jew" I've ever read.
    Your conclusions about what we do and think and our place in the world are all malicious lies. You infantalize us. You don't have enough respect for people who aren't like you to allow them autonomy in the world. You are the worst kind of bigot, the kind who thinks that you know better than we do about how we should be. You may not hate us, but you don't respect us.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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