View Poll Results: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

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  • Yes

    19 46.34%
  • No

    13 31.71%
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    8 19.51%
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    1 2.44%
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Thread: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test? [W:249]

  1. #231
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    There were Muslims living in what is now Israel before there was an Israel. What exactly do you think happened that those people ended up in Gaza?
    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I never said that you said you didn't want the Palestinians to return to their homes. Here's what you did say
    ......
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1064486057
    Despite there now being 5 MILLION 'palestinian' 'refugees', (out to a 4th Gen) almost NONE of the original 700,000 Survive.

    There is NO "Right of Return" for them, nor for others (ie, Millions of 1947 India/Pak partitioners, or 2 Million 1945 Sudeten Germans)

    And of course, due to their population Explosion, Most would have had to move a few miles anyway.
    NO FURTHER than they live now!
    So let's just make them citizens-in-place of wherever they are: the Next NON-descript Arid hill in 'paleshtein' or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon. It's not like they're exiled in Iceland.
    The same way All other post WWII refugees got absorbed.

    IF you would like further History I suggest...
    ie
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/israel...post1064472920
    [.......]
    The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible "in some bizarre way" for what befell them in 1948. Their responsibility was very direct and simple.

    In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181), They launched Hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community. But they Lost; and one of the RESULTS was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
    [........]
    Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of War (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of Victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.

    The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became "refugees" - and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3's of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee) - was not a "racist crime" .. but the RESULT of a national conflict and a WAR, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs Themselves.
    [.......]
    ...And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just Assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential Fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic......

    and Stop abusing these 'Israel Polls' in a section where it shouldn't be discussed, so you can use/Abuse the opportunity make these 'drive-by' by Goofy/Wrong Allegations. (incl Sharon)
    Last edited by mbig; 04-02-15 at 11:28 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  2. #232
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You have no understanding of what went down in Kiev the fall of 2013!
    If Ukraine had a border and a different country violated that border, that seems like it's pretty much the main part of the story.

    If Ukraine still has a border and Russia is invading/has invaded right now, that seems like a continuation of the same story.

    Would you care to explain why this invasion is unlike others? Compare and contrast with the Nazi invasion of the Sudetenland.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  3. #233
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I never said that you said you didn't want the Palestinians to return to their homes. Here's what you did say

    MildSteel said



    You responded



    Here it is right here

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1064486057
    Jews in Israel have a valid reason to not allow Palestinian Muslims return to Israel. The reason is if they do Israel would not longer be a Jewish nation and no longer be the lifeboat to escape to for Jews around the world.

    Shortly after WWII, Britain proposed that a tiny area of that region be for Jews, and 100% of everywhere else be for "exclusively" for Arabs. The Jewish Council immediately agreed - noting that area was smaller than present day Israel. However, Palestinians rioted demanding Jews have no land and instead should be evicted. So Britain withdrew the partition plan.

    As Britain prepared to pull out, the military of 4 Muslim nations along with the Palestinians prepared to attack. Jews declared at all Jews in Israel are required join the defense organization - women included.

    With British heavy equipment and the Jews having essentially none, Egypt, Jordan and Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, Palestinians, Yemen and the Arab Defense League, plus volunteers from Pakistan and the Sudan attacked the Jews. The British put up a blockaide against any equipment reaching the Jews.

    USA's Truman and Russia's Stalin recognized the nation of Israel. Eventually Britain lifted the blockaid.

    Remembering their betrayal in Chamberlain's "Land For Peace" deal, Czechoslovakia provided the Jews 25 Avia S-199 fighters (An inferior version of the Messerschmitt ME-109 ), 200 heavy machine guns, 5,021 light machine guns, 24,500 rifles, and 52 million rounds of ammunition, enough to equip all units, but short of heavy arms. The Jews also has essentially smuggled in Czechoslovakia 25 Avia S-199 fighters (An inferior version of the Messerschmitt ME-109 ), 200 heavy machine guns, 5,021 light machine guns, 24,500 rifles, and 52 million rounds of ammunition, enough to equip all units, but short of heavy arms. The airborne arms smuggling missions from Czechoslovakia were codenamed Operation Balak.

    Unknown, the Jews has sent up covert light arms manufacturing: producing 3 million 9 mm bullets, 150,000 Mills grenades, 16,000 submachine guns (Sten Guns) and 210 three-inch (76 mm) mortars", along with a few "Davidka" mortars. While the mortars were so inaccurate as to have almost no value, they were notably loud.

    Believing they were essentially attacking civilian Jews armed only with handguns and rifles, the furious and organized nature of Jewish resistance along with making what little equipment they had seem far more than it was proved highly demoralizing to the attackers who were suffering far more casualties than the Jews. This contradicted the claims of Arab generals that there would be essentially no real resistance.

    After the first invasion, arms continued to flow to the Jews - again primarily thru the Czechs including more fighter aircraft, but also British who were sympathetic to the Jews secretly turned over tanks and other heavy equipment to the Jews.

    This was not the last attack and invasion against Israel. Israel can not allow Palestinians to return or Israel would cease to exist as a Jewish nation. Israel can not give by land obtained in the war they didn't start as it is an necessary defensive zone. All the words anyone rages doesn't change those 2 obvious facts.

  4. #234
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    So let's just make them citizens-in-place of wherever they are
    Glad you agree to a Palestinian state based on pre 1967 borders! YAY!!!!!!

  5. #235
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The Arab regimes in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Jordan are totally anti-Iran and most likely support Netanyahu and his goals.

    What would make a difference is donations from groups w/pro-Iranian sentiment and/or anti-Likud sentiment (i. e. J Street) to GOP pols' coffers.
    The issue was YOUR claim that Republicans support Israel's PM because of money. So how is your response a dispute that anti Iran forces give money to Democrats?

  6. #236
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Despite there now being 5 MILLION 'palestinian' 'refugees', (out to a 4th Gen) almost NONE of the original 700,000 Survive.

    There is NO "Right of Return" for them, nor for others (ie, Millions of 1947 India/Pak partitioners, or 2 Million 1945 Sudeten Germans)

    And of course, due to their population Explosion, Most would have had to move a few miles anyway.
    NO FURTHER than they live now!
    So let's just make them citizens-in-place of wherever they are: the Next NON-descript Arid hill in 'paleshtein' or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon. It's not like they're exiled in Iceland.
    The same way All other post WWII refugees got absorbed.

    IF you would like further History I suggest...
    ie
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/israel...post1064472920
    [.......]
    The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible "in some bizarre way" for what befell them in 1948. Their responsibility was very direct and simple.

    In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181), They launched Hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community. But they Lost; and one of the RESULTS was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
    [........]
    Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of War (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of Victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.

    The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became "refugees" - and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3's of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee) - was not a "racist crime" .. but the RESULT of a national conflict and a WAR, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs Themselves.
    [.......]
    ...And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just Assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential Fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic......

    and Stop abusing these 'Israel Polls' in a section where it shouldn't be discussed, so you can use/Abuse the opportunity make these 'drive-by' by Goofy/Wrong Allegations. (incl Sharon)
    Has Jordan, Syria, Iran, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Afghanistan offered the "right to return" to Jews?

    It is noticeable that Saudi Arabia has never offered to annex the Palestinian zone to becoming part of Saudi Arabia, have they? They no more want radical Islamic militants than does Israel to be voting citizens.

  7. #237
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    If Ukraine had a border and a different country violated that border, that seems like it's pretty much the main part of the story.

    If Ukraine still has a border and Russia is invading/has invaded right now, that seems like a continuation of the same story.

    Would you care to explain why this invasion is unlike others? Compare and contrast with the Nazi invasion of the Sudetenland.
    Most Democrats support Russia seizing Crimea. I have not read ONE Democrat, ever, demand that Russia give "a right of return" to evicted Tartar Muslims. Have you? In fact, Putin announced he was going to deport more - saying it was for their own safety.

    Palestinians should be deported to Saudi Arabia and Syria "for their own safety." Then everyone would be happy. Muslims would have their exclusive countries (note the plural) and Jews would have their one tiny little country. Muslims having 99.99% of the land and 99.99% of natural resources of the region seems fair to Muslims.

  8. #238
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Has Jordan, Syria, Iran, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Afghanistan offered the "right to return" to Jews?

    It is noticeable that Saudi Arabia has never offered to annex the Palestinian zone to becoming part of Saudi Arabia, have they? They no more want radical Islamic militants than does Israel to be voting citizens.
    No, I don't think so.
    But King of one of the rich Emirates did a few years ago. A pretty Token gesture, but they could use the talent I guess.

    But Notably, Spain offered 'return' for Sephardic Jews 2 years ago.
    Sephardic Jews invited back to Spain after 500 years - BBC News
    Interesting, in that it's not just Jews per se, but the 'Race' of Sephardim, about 20%? of Jews.
    Not sure how many took the kind offer.
    Last edited by mbig; 04-02-15 at 10:39 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  9. #239
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Glad you agree to a Palestinian state based on pre 1967 borders! YAY!!!!!!
    I'm glad you agree that all you white people will withdraw to the pre-North American invasion borders. YAY!!!!!!!

    (Have you set a date to go back to Europe yet?)

  10. #240
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    If Ukraine had a border and a different country violated that border, that seems like it's pretty much the main part of the story.

    If Ukraine still has a border and Russia is invading/has invaded right now, that seems like a continuation of the same story.

    Would you care to explain why this invasion is unlike others? Compare and contrast with the Nazi invasion of the Sudetenland.
    Sure, it's not an invasion!!! From the Council on Foreign Relations

    But this account is wrong: the United States and its European allies share most of the responsibility for the crisis. The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West. At the same time, the EU’s expansion eastward and the West’s backing of the pro-democracy movement in Ukraine -- beginning with the Orange Revolution in 2004 -- were critical elements, too. Since the mid-1990s, Russian leaders have adamantly opposed NATO enlargement, and in recent years, they have made it clear that they would not stand by while their strategically important neighbor turned into a Western bastion. For Putin, the illegal overthrow of Ukraine’s democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a “coup” -- was the final straw. He responded by taking Crimea, a peninsula he feared would host a NATO naval base, and working to destabilize Ukraine until it abandoned its efforts to join the West.

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...he-wests-fault
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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