View Poll Results: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

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  • Yes

    19 46.34%
  • No

    13 31.71%
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Thread: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test? [W:249]

  1. #191
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And they are "warmongers".
    In case you so quickly forgotten last decade.

    Cotton is clearly on record calling for military action versus negotiations.
    Another unforced error that would be welcomed by me if it wasn't so damned dangerous .
    I favor military action if that prevents Iran from nuclear weapons. Why? Iran's civil and religious leadership has vowed the genocide of Jews in Israel. Therefore Iran should not be allowed to have them. It is that simple to me.

    "Negotiations" of themselves are nothing. Here, all divorce cases require mediation and negotiate before trial. Does that avoid trial? Usually not. Does it make peace between the couple, usually not.

    Negotiate what? The date for the elimination of Israel? From all reports in terms of details, the only goal of Obama is to assure that Iran does not set off a test nuclear weapon while he is still in office. Afterwards he and Democrats can blame it on the next president, the Republicans or whoever.

    Personally, I favor the most crimpling sanctions possible to cut off funds, shatter Iran's economy and use this to support toppling the current government, plus all other means to do so.

    If military action was necessary to take out a specific production facility? I would want the USA to provide every possible support to Israel to take out that target.

    Finally, if the ONLY way to prevent Iran obtaining nuclear weapons was full scale war like Gulf War 1? I would support doing so.

    Now it's your turn. If Germany had not declared war on the USA and the only way to stop the holocaust and stop German advancement into other countries was the USA going to war against Germany, would you want the USA to go to war against Germany or not?

  2. #192
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I favor military action if that prevents Iran from nuclear weapons. Why? Iran's civil and religious leadership has vowed the genocide of Jews in Israel. Therefore Iran should not be allowed to have them. It is that simple to me.

    "Negotiations" of themselves are nothing. Here, all divorce cases require mediation and negotiate before trial. Does that avoid trial? Usually not. Does it make peace between the couple, usually not.

    Negotiate what? The date for the elimination of Israel? From all reports in terms of details, the only goal of Obama is to assure that Iran does not set off a test nuclear weapon while he is still in office. Afterwards he and Democrats can blame it on the next president, the Republicans or whoever.

    Personally, I favor the most crimpling sanctions possible to cut off funds, shatter Iran's economy and use this to support toppling the current government, plus all other means to do so.

    If military action was necessary to take out a specific production facility? I would want the USA to provide every possible support to Israel to take out that target.

    Finally, if the ONLY way to prevent Iran obtaining nuclear weapons was full scale war like Gulf War 1? I would support doing so.

    Now it's your turn. If Germany had not declared war on the USA and the only way to stop the holocaust and stop German advancement into other countries was the USA going to war against Germany, would you want the USA to go to war against Germany or not?
    I think you know that the sad reality is that the U.S. would not enter the war to stop the holocaust. Heck they even refused to divert some bombers to blow up the ovens in the camps.

  3. #193
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I think you know that the sad reality is that the U.S. would not enter the war to stop the holocaust. Heck they even refused to divert some bombers to blow up the ovens in the camps.
    And after the war it was learned Churchill proactively did not want Germany to release Jews in the camps to the UK.

  4. #194
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    And after the war it was learned Churchill proactively did not want Germany to release Jews in the camps to the UK.
    And yet you have a ton of people on this site and throughout the world that can't understand why Israel needs to stay a Jewish state.

  5. #195
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    They are in those conditions because the Muslims/Arabs keep attacking Israel!! It is not any more complicated than that. How are Israelis supposed to trust any of them with the constant attacks, tunnels and wars?
    There were Muslims living in what is now Israel before there was an Israel. What exactly do you think happened that those people ended up in Gaza?

  6. #196
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You mean like Obama's drone strikes and unilateral war against Libya?
    Israel uses more than drones and if I recall correctly it was a French Jew that instigated that whole thing with Libya.

  7. #197
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
    No GOP support unless you kiss Bibi's behind.
    According to William Kristol, Bibi would be the Republican nominee if the rules did not prevent it.

  8. #198
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Can absolutely see what Iran wants them. Do you dispute that Iran wants nuclear weapons?
    I can neither confirm or deny that. Iran has maintained that they have no desire for them, both US and Israeli intelligence have concluded that Iran isn't building them, and P5+1 have made it clear that any deal reached will deny Iran a nuclear weapons program and have historically rigorous monitoring to ensure that. I can understand why Iran would want the deterrent, surrounded as they are by US military bases, and threatened by Israel as they are on a regular basis. And now, with the destabilisation of the region due to US policy to remove Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad, Saudi Arabia is seeking to exert its power, another threat to Iran. So I don't know what if anything Iran can or will do to avoid the fate of Iraq, Libya and Syria.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Being in a "prison camp" means prohibited from leaving. Do Jews prohibit Palestinians from leaving? Palestine's area is not surrounded by Israel. And the concept of a 7400 square mile prison is just declaring a slogan, not a reality.
    David Cameron used a visit to Turkey to make his strongest intervention yet in the intractable Middle East conflict today when he likened the experience of Palestinians in the blockaded Gaza Strip to that of a "prison camp".

    Although he has made similar remarks before, his decision to repeat them on a world stage in Turkey, whose relations with Israel have deteriorated sharply since it mounted a deadly assault on the Gaza flotilla, gave them much greater diplomatic significance.

    David Cameron: Israeli blockade has turned Gaza Strip into a 'prison camp' | Politics | The Guardian

    Israel continues to maintain direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza through controlling Gaza's air and maritime space, control of six of Gaza's seven land crossings, reserving the right to reenter Gaza at will through regular military incursions, maintaining a no-go buffer zone within the Gaza territory......

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

    Israeli official calls for concentration camps in Gaza and 'the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3W43Or8Dm
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    Last edited by Montecresto; 04-01-15 at 09:35 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #200
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    Re: Has support for Israel become the new GOP litmus test?

    I have no doubt the situation for Palestinians is miserable. However, Israel has not followed the solution to ethnic/religious problems with Muslims that Muslim nations have followed in relation to Jews - which is to kill or drive off virtually all Jews. The history of genocide against Jews is across the world and has been a virtual non-stop holocaust.

    While most are talked about in history, the one never talked about is the Muslim holocaust against Jews - which was more effective in eradicating Jews than was Hitler in Europe - by far. Other than ISIS, there is NO talk of the systematic murder and abuse of all non-Muslims and particularly Jews in virtually every country in the ME. Rather, a fixation on how Jews treat Palestinian Muslims. Because the Palestinians were not murdered or forced to flee.

    Hitler's holocaust was a greater scale and more methodical continuation of the Russian, Greek and Ottoman ongoing holocaust against Jews. To this day, the Jewish population has not recovered in population numbers. Other than the USA and Israel, Jews have been virtually purged from the entire rest of the world if you explore the history of Jewish populations in the various countries.

    Israel is a lifeboat.

    Other than the USA, which does not automatically allow Jews to immigrate, Israel is the ONLY place for Jews to flee to when the next round of murdering Jews springs up in their particular country. Israel is not about nation building nor a particularly good place to live. But for many Jews it is their only option.

    While Jews do not grant full rights to Palestinians because there would cease to be a Jewish state if they did, Israel's treatment of Muslims and Palestinians is almost infinitely better than how ME Muslim countries treat Jews. Yet the only complaints I read of are condemnations of Israel. Maybe Israel should kill or remove all Palestinians en-mass so they can also have the lesser level of criticism that Muslims have.

    There are many Hitler quotes of course, but one of those is that Hitler cited another holocaust (against Armenians) - that people quickly forget a genocide. His opinion was that if you totally eliminate a race/ethnicity there is no one left to complain nor any undoing it.

    This is definitely true for the Muslim nations' genocide of Jews (and Christians). With all of them essentially eliminated, no one complains of that holocaust. The reason all complaints are aimed at Jews of Israel about Palestinians is because Israel did NOT engage in a holocaust against those Muslims forcing them to flee into Saudi Arabia and Syrian en mass. Thus, Israel's greater humanity now results in their being nearly the singular focus of attack for human rights violations - because they did not eliminate the Palestinians the way Muslim nations eliminated Jews.

    An analogy is the slaughter of Native Americans. While the are 100 trillion words about discrimination and oppression of African Americans and a trillion words about unfairness to Latinos, there is virtual silence about NAs. Kill off a people and you kill off any enduring complaints about them or any trouble from them. Thus, in terms of public review and criticism, genocide is the better long term policy.

    Do you see any human rights focus and complaints irony in this? My support of Israel and allowing them huge latitude in conduct is because I oppose genocide, which is Israel's alternative.
    Last edited by joko104; 04-01-15 at 10:52 AM.

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