View Poll Results: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

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  • Yes

    28 33.73%
  • No

    51 61.45%
  • Maybe

    3 3.61%
  • Don't know

    1 1.20%
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Thread: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

  1. #421
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Fair enough. I don't know what any of the people listed pay their employees, but once an employee is hired, they usually do have the opportunity to advance in almost any area. With those entry-level jobs, they did get their foot in the door - after that it's up to them to show an employer they were capable of more responsibility and higher pay, don't they? Most of us who started working at a young age knew we weren't likely to be paid $100,000 dollars a year to start, but it was a start.

    Perhaps I grew up in a different era, but we were told to show up on time, work hard, and get extra schooling if necessary. I doubt if anyone from the companies I listed above, with the possible exception of WalMart, are paid minimum wage, and even there, their store managers earn at least $80,000 a year. Plus, WalMart has no problem with hiring entry-level people...they always have more applicants for jobs than there are openings.

    I did answer your question to the best of my ability, so it's your turn to tell me what Democrats have done for the middle class as far as job opportunities are concerned - and I am excluding jobs in government, since both parties have to follow the rules in that area as far as Civil Service is concerned, as an example. Companies have to be competitive, or they don't stay in business long - government doesn't have that handicap.
    I am going to make two points here. First of all, we should always remember that it takes three things to provide jobs:

    1. Capital/Raw Materials
    2. Labor
    3. Consumption

    As such capitalists need to remember that their luxurious lifestyle would not be possible without workers and consumers to support such a lifestyle. Therefore they all should help one another. It is not that the wealthy are exclusively important and the people who do the work should be treated like dirt and beat down in the ground. Rather, their interests need to be taken into consideration. It is not that you give everything to the wealthy and let them trickle down as little as possible. That is one point.

    The next point is that although Democrats have glaring flaws, it appears that compared to Republicans, they will at least make some attempt at trying to do concrete things that would make it possible for the middle class to improve their condition. I have made mention of three things, proposing legislation that would give student loan consumers the opportunity to refinance their loans at a lower rate, proposing free community college, and proposing an extension of unemployment benefits to workers displaced by the recession. All three of those things would help the middle class, and all three have been opposed by Republicans. While they have opposed these things, they have led the effort to pass legislation that allows creditors to garnish the wages of debtors who owe them money. There are people who have lost better paying jobs through no fault of their own, and who have had to accept lower paying jobs, that have been affected adversely by this measure that Republicans made strong efforts to have enacted into law. Therefore, when these things are taken into consideration, one can make the case that Republicans appear to be hostile to the interests of the middle class.

  2. #422
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I am going to make two points here. First of all, we should always remember that it takes three things to provide jobs:

    1. Capital/Raw Materials
    2. Labor
    3. Consumption

    As such capitalists need to remember that their luxurious lifestyle would not be possible without workers and consumers to support such a lifestyle. Therefore they all should help one another. It is not that the wealthy are exclusively important and the people who do the work should be treated like dirt and beat down in the ground. Rather, their interests need to be taken into consideration. It is not that you give everything to the wealthy and let them trickle down as little as possible. That is one point.

    The next point is that although Democrats have glaring flaws, it appears that compared to Republicans, they will at least make some attempt at trying to do concrete things that would make it possible for the middle class to improve their condition. I have made mention of three things, proposing legislation that would give student loan consumers the opportunity to refinance their loans at a lower rate, proposing free community college, and proposing an extension of unemployment benefits to workers displaced by the recession. All three of those things would help the middle class, and all three have been opposed by Republicans. While they have opposed these things, they have led the effort to pass legislation that allows creditors to garnish the wages of debtors who owe them money. There are people who have lost better paying jobs through no fault of their own, and who have had to accept lower paying jobs, that have been affected adversely by this measure that Republicans made strong efforts to have enacted into law. Therefore, when these things are taken into consideration, one can make the case that Republicans appear to be hostile to the interests of the middle class.
    All good points. I think a lot of what we are facing is because we have become more of a global community these days, and we are on the end of the stick that has billions of people on the other side. Even the poorest among us are considered wealthy by the rest of the world. It appears that a one-world-government is what some envision as a solution, where everyone has the same advantages. This would raise the standard of living for most on the "other side of the stick," but it would certainly lower ours, because we have set the goal posts as the standard since the end of WW2. Why would anyone be surprised that so many want to live like we do, and immigrate here to enjoy the lifestyle we do? The problem as I see it is that many have not had the background to build on that we have had, and continue to have the same type of thinking that they had in the country they left - "our streets are paved with gold, and it's easy to become wealthy here." That's not true, or we would not have 50 million people on food-stamps here. I don't know what the solution is, but our standard of living is being lowered, slowly but surely, and lots of people here don't know how to deal with living from paycheck to paycheck yet. If that's our future, it looks bleak, IMO.

  3. #423
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    This isn't about needs or priorities. This is about one group of people being abused so that another group of people can have something.
    By this I assume you do mean internet users who would pay more due to the loss of net neutrality so that internet cable providers can make more money, or people who lost their jobs to practically free labor overseas so that the corporations could make more money, right?

  4. #424
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I am going to make two points here. First of all, we should always remember that it takes three things to provide jobs:

    1. Capital/Raw Materials
    2. Labor
    3. Consumption

    As such capitalists need to remember that their luxurious lifestyle would not be possible without workers and consumers to support such a lifestyle. Therefore they all should help one another. It is not that the wealthy are exclusively important and the people who do the work should be treated like dirt and beat down in the ground. Rather, their interests need to be taken into consideration. It is not that you give everything to the wealthy and let them trickle down as little as possible. That is one point.

    The next point is that although Democrats have glaring flaws, it appears that compared to Republicans, they will at least make some attempt at trying to do concrete things that would make it possible for the middle class to improve their condition. I have made mention of three things, proposing legislation that would give student loan consumers the opportunity to refinance their loans at a lower rate, proposing free community college, and proposing an extension of unemployment benefits to workers displaced by the recession. All three of those things would help the middle class, and all three have been opposed by Republicans. While they have opposed these things, they have led the effort to pass legislation that allows creditors to garnish the wages of debtors who owe them money. There are people who have lost better paying jobs through no fault of their own, and who have had to accept lower paying jobs, that have been affected adversely by this measure that Republicans made strong efforts to have enacted into law. Therefore, when these things are taken into consideration, one can make the case that Republicans appear to be hostile to the interests of the middle class.
    What you are asking for is more free handouts. People already retire on liberal handouts.

    Then you want loan forgiveness if a person looses a job. Good one all I have to do it get myself laid off and my debt goes away.

    It would not possible for workers to have a job unless others took risk with their own capital to start a business that they have in some cases their life savings invested.

    Workers are not treated like ****, in this country everyone has the opportunity to QUIT if you don't like your job. Further there are all kinds of laws that protects employees.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - Total Failure

  5. #425
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What? You can't decide? Well since you have come here in this forum and accused me of being stupid and borrowing more than I can afford to pay without saying neither how much I make, nor how much I owe, I can damn sure decide. What I decide is that you are engaging in arrogant, right wing Republican condescension, to relieve yourself of some sort of arrogant filth. Since that is the case, here's what you can do. Go and wipe your filthy ass somewhere else, I am not your toilet paper.



    No you don't get it because your own arrogance has you bewildered. You can't get it because you have this need to put someone whose views that you don't agree with and/or find uncomfortable, down below you so that you can wipe your feet like a door mat. There is no "now admit" nothing. Its just that you don't have enough sense to understand what was put forward or take the time to read the thread to understand what was meant. My position has been consistent all along. The government should have a program to let people refinance their student loan debt. This would allow borrowers, who are paying off their loans in good faith, the opportunity to do so at lower rates.



    No it doesn't cost a damn thing and that is the point. The point is that the government should not be trying to make money by gouging student loan consumers. The point of the making the loans is to facilitate education, not make money. As such, it doesn't cost the government a damn thing.



    People refinance home loans and other debt all the time. No one gets the shaft. If that were the case, no one would be able to refinance loans. Again, the purpose of the loans is to facilitate education, not make money.



    Well you are not the only one who is a taxpayer. I pay thousands of dollars every year, one year I paid over $20,000 and that is a lot of money to me. As such, hell I get the right to voice my opinion about what I think the government should do.
    Personal attacks aside, I'll attempt to adress a couple of your statements:

    You claim that this "refinance" program "doesn't cost a damn thing". Apparently Warren doesn't agree with you. She proposed to pay for the program by imposing a 30% minimum tax on a certain group of high income earners. Why would we need a new tax to pay for something that will not cost a damn thing? Your original link cites this new tax as the sticky point.

    (2) Your thread title concerns Repubs not caring about the middle class. Past your first post, there is little mention of middle class, but instead student loans. Which AFAIK are not wholly a middle class problem, but encompass all income groups. Now, 400 posts later, it appears that the real problem might be a personal problem, i.e. a loan you don't want to pay back at the initial terms for whatever reason. This in spite of the claim that you pay $20K in taxes. Again, I don't know, nor care, your personal finances, but a tax bill in general of 20K indicates an income north of 100K. If that's issue, so state, as I am only speculating at this point. You are right, I know nothing of your personal situation.

    (3) Again, the government is not stopping you from refinancing your loan, any loan. You refer to home mortages, which can and do get refinanced, but no one is asking the government to step in and reduce the interest rate, or increase the terms.

    (4) When I used the pronoun you a while back, I was not referring to you personally. Perhaps I should have used the Southern term - You'all.

    The rest of your post is just personal attacks. I don't address personal attacks. Only issues.

  6. #426
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Everybody sucks. So, you have to have regulation with the regulators out of the loop.
    I don't know how that works.
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No. That would be crazy, who thinks that. I illustrated that without fences, capital hurts labor!
    You would create systems that protect labor from business while hurting business by making it almost impossible to fire an employee who doesn't meet standards. This works better if employees seek employment where they are treated better and businesses compete for the best employees. As it is too many employees stay in what I call "trap jobs" that they don't like and will never be good at because the job offers "security."
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No. I don't think that anybody can be trusted. Which is why there should be term limits, and non partisan scrutiny. Now there's the rub, but if we could just get Americans to love America first and their party second, that could indeed be repaired. I do however realize that that's a heavy lift.
    I definitely agree that too many and maybe most are too loyal to their political party.
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
    H. L. Mencken

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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    why do you hate the troops?
    I don't see any hate of anybody embodied in my posts. My factual observation that people serve a self interest is not hate, its real. And I would bet that I've spent more time entertaining, feeding, greeting and thanking troops than you or most people ever will.
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
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  10. #430
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I don't see any hate of anybody embodied in my posts. My factual observation that people serve a self interest is not hate, its real. And I would bet that I've spent more time entertaining, feeding, greeting and thanking troops than you or most people ever will.


    Why would you spend time thanking and helping people you distrust?

    So you think troops serve for their self interest?

    Also you canstick your assumptions.

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