View Poll Results: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

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  • Yes

    28 33.73%
  • No

    51 61.45%
  • Maybe

    3 3.61%
  • Don't know

    1 1.20%
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Thread: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

  1. #361
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It is certainly better than having the state make a grant.
    Therefore the government should allow student loan customers to refinance their loans.

  2. #362
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I'm pretty sure I can support my arguments, and just saying something isn;t true without explaining why it isnt true is really bad debate form. So is suggesting your opponent said something she didn't say at all. A good debate judge takes a lot of points off for that offense.
    OK. I'm going to go back over it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And at least if a state screws up, it only screws things up for the people of that one state and not 49 others.
    That is not true because people are not confined to state boundaries due to the large amount of interstate travel and communication. As a result of that what one state does can have a large effect on the people of other states.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And those complaining how Republicans 'hate the middle class' don't seem to realize that the one thing that has hurt the middle class most is more and more power taken by the federal government leaving less and less power to the middle class
    That is not true. It is a deception that people like Rush Limbaugh, Mike Savage, and Glenn Beck have propagated to demonize government in the minds of the middle class because they know that the only thing that is keeping the wealthy of this country from exploiting the middle class to death is government. Now what is true is that since the presidency of George W Bush, the government has assumed power that has eroded the civil liberties of everyone and that is disturbing. However that is something that has been supported by Republicans and Democrats as well. No, what has hurt the middle class the most is the outsourcing of jobs overseas which is something that Republicans have championed, and people like Bill Clinton as well. Over and above that, Republicans have opposed things like allowing people to refinance their student loans, extending unemployment benefits to middle class workers displaced due to the recession, and free community college. All three of these things would actually help the middle class, and Republicans have opposed all three.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    the poor are largely in favor of the federal government forcing the middle class to serve them.
    That is not true. The poor want better jobs and better opportunities to get themselves out of poverty. Government can play a role in facilitating such. That does not mean that the poor want to middle class to serve them. Again, this is a distortion that has been placed into the minds of the middle class by people like Rush Limbaugh, Mike Savage, and Glenn Beck. They have done this to distract the middle class from the fact that the capitalist class is forcing them to work harder simply to make ends meet. By demonizing the poor in this way, the attention of the middle class has been diverted from the real culprits to a class of people who are very easily victimized because they have no power. The poor have no power to make the middle class serve them. The wealthy people can and do exercise the power to force the middle class to serve them. That is the reality of the situation.

    Now, there you go. Those are your words verbatim and I have gone through it again, point by point. Here is your chance to shine. Defend your statements.

  3. #363
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Refinancing a loan is paying your own way.
    Is see no reason why anyone should be forbidden to renegotiate or refinance their education with any lender that agrees to a better deal. Fortunately, there aren't any prohibitions against that, so I don't see the problem.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  4. #364
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    Just look through history before regulations. Hell, capitalism as a whole is a system that inevitably favors a small group of people. I agree with that point about repeating things, but I don't see that happening in regards to this, history shows us what happens, and looking at what capitalism, even when regulated, does.
    Again you make unsupported remarks.
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
    H. L. Mencken

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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    How is he making an excuse?
    "...he did not note the entire process..."
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
    H. L. Mencken

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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    That I won't disagree with. But that's a perversion of the real government roll of regulating capitalism to protect all people's involved. Do you not understand the extent men will go in their pursuit of ever greater profits without some restraining mechanism. Again, we don't have to imagine it. Are you familiar with the plight of the American worker during the advent of the Industrial Age, when there was little or no regulation? Men are not angels. Our constitution and the people's bill of rights is regulation!
    Our government has no defined roll of regulating business. I wish you were as well versed on capitalism as you seem to be on socialism/communism. If you were I think you would see how capitalism is supposed to work and why regulation makes it something other than capitalism. I agree that men are not angels. But that applies to all men rather they work for the government or private enterprise. When we understand that and when we understand that we all serve our self interest then we should understand that people in government have more power than people in the private sector and so should be feared more than the private sector.
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
    H. L. Mencken

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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The War between Capital and Labor

    Because we live in an age in which workers are protected by federal and state laws as well as by sound business practices, it is hard for us to imagine a time when workers—especially unskilled, often immigrant workers—were completely at the mercy of their employers. (The plight of many illegal immigrant workers today may be comparable; however, without legal status, they have little recourse to assistance in case of unfair practices.) As we mentioned above, before the industrial age factories and workplaces were small enough that the owner knew everyone by name and often worked alongside his or her employees. The age of the modern factory and impersonal management changed all that, and the patent unfairness with which workers were treated became scandalous. For example, if a worker was injured on the job by faulty machinery, there was no mechanism for obtaining compensation. If a worker sued, he or she had to prove that it was not his or her own negligence that caused the accident. It is very difficult to prove a negative in such circumstances.
    The people who came to power in that era, and many now, did so as a result of government support. To my reading the circumstances of employment were changed to to the work of unions. Politicians then piggybacked on those accomplishments.

    Are you really saying that someone has a right to claimed damages without having to prove the damages?
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
    H. L. Mencken

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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You must think that everybody can be trusted to do the right thing, lol. Why do we have contracts, treaties, verification inspections, OSHA. Dude, the pursuit of profits compromises character and ethics, sorry, it is what it is. It blows my mind that you don't see the need for any regulation or restrictions at all.

    Before OSHA, workers health in the work place was constantly compromised. A cabinet shop was a terrible place to work, and lung problems were regular. Business didn't decide to spend the money to address this problem, regulation was put in place requiring a business to install ventilation, vacuum, filtration systems that were quite costly initially, but worker safety, health and productivity increased. Just expand that concept across the board.
    You must think that people in government can be trusted to do the right thing. LOL. What I think is that we all serve our self interest and that people in government have more power to pursue those interests, at our expense, if we choose to give them that power, which you do.
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
    H. L. Mencken

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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    That's the beauty of capitalism, it inevitably favors the wealthy.
    Capitalism has made more people wealthy while socialism makes those with the right connections, crony capitalism, wealthy. If you want to work hard and risk resources to be rich you have that opportunity with capitalism. If you want to work forty hours a week and spend time with you family and friends you have that opportunity with capitalism.
    "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
    H. L. Mencken

  10. #370
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    Re: Are Republicans against helping the middle class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, they simply strongly disagree with the Democrats on the methods that best go about helping the middle class, either in the long term or the short term. Undoubtably as well they likely have, in some fashions, different metrics and methods of determining what is "helpful" and what "isn't" in their minds.

    The only way to say the Republicans are against helping the middle class is by judging them based off the Democratic view point on the issue as being the only potential way to view it and absolute/singular objective fact.
    Agreed. The reality is that it is the Democrats who are harming the middle class. They do so with their class warfare schemes. When they make a big play of socking it to the rich, they simply hope that most cannot workout that every time they sock it to the rich....the extra cost runs downhill and squarely hits the middle class in a higher cost of goods and services.

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