View Poll Results: should it be made easier for more candidates in the Pres debates?

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  • Yes

    22 68.75%
  • No

    10 31.25%
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Thread: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the Pres

  1. #11
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is, indeed, part of the problem. It seems that about half of the voters will vote a "straight ticket" making the primary become the important race. The problem with third party candidates is that they stand very, very little chance of winning in a general election. Many "regular" voters cannot even name their three congress critters, much less what committees they are on, what bills they have introduced, sponsored or voted for.

    http://www.austincc.edu/cppps/pdfs/straightticket.pdf
    You're missing the point.

    People think they only have two choices because the system has been rigged to only offer them two choices.

    If you only have "feces A" and "feces B" to chose from, what difference does it make which pile of feces you chose?

    The two parties have rigged it so that any other option isn't available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.

  2. #12
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Recently there has been some debate around the Presidential Debates, and how many candidates should be invited. A new group is looking to press for a change in the rules to make it easier for 3rd parties or independent candidates into the debate. Info on that can be found here: New group calls for changes in presidential debate rules - The Washington Post


    My question to you is, "should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the Presidential debates?"
    Indeed. There's a thread on this in the breaking news non MSM forum. And there's a group working toward this end now.
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  3. #13
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    You're missing the point.

    People think they only have two choices because the system has been rigged to only offer them two choices.

    If you only have "feces A" and "feces B" to chose from, what difference does it make which pile of feces you chose?

    The two parties have rigged it so that any other option isn't available.
    That may be true but giving "fringe" candidates a few hours of free airtime will never fix that system. I doubt that many point to a debate answer as the reason for selecting a candidate. The simple truth is that third party candidates tend subtract votes from one major party more than the other, making the decision to vote for a long odds, third party candidate simply give one of the favorites an advantage over the other.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #14
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Are you really and honestly that blind to reality???

    If I handed you a cup of coke and a cup of pepsi, and told you to chose just one, would I be safe in assuming you wouldn't prefer sprite, coffee, beer, or water?
    Sorry - that makes no sense to me.
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is, indeed, part of the problem. It seems that about half of the voters will vote a "straight ticket" making the primary become the important race. The problem with third party candidates is that they stand very, very little chance of winning in a general election. Many "regular" voters cannot even name their three congress critters, much less what committees they are on, what bills they have introduced, sponsored or voted for.

    http://www.austincc.edu/cppps/pdfs/straightticket.pdf
    But yet, third party advocates wallow in the belief that if somehow they could just get in on the debates all their problems would be solved. What a joke.

    Lets look at all the folks here who pretend that they are LIBERTARIAN but on election day go to the polls and end up voting REPUBLICAN.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That may be true but giving "fringe" candidates a few hours of free airtime will never fix that system. I doubt that many point to a debate answer as the reason for selecting a candidate. The simple truth is that third party candidates tend subtract votes from one major party more than the other, making the decision to vote for a long odds, third party candidate simply give one of the favorites an advantage over the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sorry - that makes no sense to me.
    You are both part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    You'd both prefer to limit the options to two pieces of trash than open things up to more competition and possibly hope for some change.

    Don't worry, you're not alone. You both deserve the government you get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.

  7. #17
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Recently there has been some debate around the Presidential Debates, and how many candidates should be invited. A new group is looking to press for a change in the rules to make it easier for 3rd parties or independent candidates into the debate. Info on that can be found here: New group calls for changes in presidential debate rules - The Washington Post

    My question to you is, "should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the Presidential debates?"
    I'm fine with making it a bit easier for one additional candidate to participate in the debates, with it becoming more difficult to meet the requirement as the election cycle moves forward. From the other thread discussing the news story:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I would be fine with something like this, with a slight tweak, for the general election.

    For the first debate, the requirement would be as they say. Ballot access in states totalling 270 electoral college votes. If more than one candidate meets that requirement, the one with the most signatures becomes the 3rd wheel in the debate.

    For the second debate, an additional requirement would be needed. The individual would need to be polling at least at 5% in 3 nationally recognized polls (create a list of applicable polls for this purpose).

    For the third and any subsequent debates, an additional requirement would be needed. The individual would need ot be polling at least at 10% in 3 nationally recognized poll.

    Here's my logic...

    First, I agree with them that they're looking at just 3. More than that and it muddies the water of the debate far too much and does an ultimate disservice to the voters.

    Second, the first debate should have a low threshold to get into. This is essentially a third party candidates "coming out" party. Their first big chance to hit a national audience. To expect them to be polling even mildly well prior to this point is likely unreasonable.

    Third, after the first debate...IF the candidate is even MILDLY viable...he should begin to poll at least a noticable level given the additional exposure from the first debate. If by the second debate the candidate still can't manage 5% support in the polls, or by the third debate he can't manage 10% support, then to me that's a clear indication that the candidate has little realistic chance to win the Presidency and is not catching hold with the American Public. As such, I believe it's in the Publics best interest for a candidate that so few are interested in, and has such a implausible chance of winning, to be taking up valuable air time that could be spent allowing the Public to better learn about the two primary candidates.
    Essentially

    1st debate - 270 electoral votes of ballot access (most signatures win out if there are multiple people who meet this)
    2nd debate - 270 electoral votes of ballot access AND 5% in polls (highest in polls wins out for this)
    3rd+ debate - 270 electoral votes of ballot access AND 10% in polls (highest in polls wins out for this)

  8. #18
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But yet, third party advocates wallow in the belief that if somehow they could just get in on the debates all their problems would be solved. What a joke.

    Lets look at all the folks here who pretend that they are LIBERTARIAN but on election day go to the polls and end up voting REPUBLICAN.
    That is not entirely so. Most third party candidates realize that they will never win yet still hope to steer one of the major party's candidates to share their views on at least some issues. We now hear of many republicants being referred to as TP supporters or as RINOS which does have an impact on policy decisions even though they still appear as republicants on the ballot.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #19
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    You are both part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    You'd both prefer to limit the options to two pieces of trash than open things up to more competition and possibly hope for some change.

    Don't worry, you're not alone. You both deserve the government you get.
    The door is already open. Your problem is not me or anyone else - its that few voters are willing to walk through that open door.

    Look at all the folks here who pretend to be LIBERTARIAN but vote REPUBLICAN every election.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #20
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    Re: should the rules be changed to make it easier for one or more candidate into the

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    You are both part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    You'd both prefer to limit the options to two pieces of trash than open things up to more competition and possibly hope for some change.

    Don't worry, you're not alone. You both deserve the government you get.
    See my post #18. One can still influence policy without personally winning the election. Further opening the debates to more folks is a good idea even if the additional candidates will don't win.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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