View Poll Results: What is the best example of fair punishment for a week?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Timmy has 2 toys, Tommy has 4 toys. Both boys loose all toys.

    21 84.00%
  • Timmy has 2 toys, Tommy has 4 toys. Both boys loose 1 toy.

    2 8.00%
  • Timmy has 2 toys, Tommy has 4 toys. Both boys loose 2 toys.

    1 4.00%
  • Timmy has 2 toys, Tommy has 4 toys. Both boys loose 50% of their toys.

    1 4.00%
Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 127

Thread: "Fair" punishment

  1. #61
    Professor
    pdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Searching for answers.
    Last Seen
    06-30-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,969

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Another progressive fine question.



    I'm hate to have to do so, but I guess I will. I'm going to burst your bubble.






    Kids =/= Adults.
    We can discuss that later (it's already come up). Did you at least answer in this context?

  2. #62
    Professor
    pdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Searching for answers.
    Last Seen
    06-30-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,969

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    How can you punish if you dont know the reason? All reasons are not equal.
    Because you're trying to punish equally. The reason should cancel out since you'd be trying to apply the same punishment to both kids. But if you need one, the last one I gave was that they didn't do their homework.

  3. #63
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,669

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    1) But what does this mean? 2) Do you see why this is a tough question? 3) Who decides that one toy and not two is the 'proper' penalty? 4) There's nothing propery about it - it's arbitrary. 5) What is the "severity of the infraction"? 6) Severe relative to who/what? I'm not playing games, these are real questions that seem to have appeal-to-authority type answers.




    I agree. 7) But the question to you is does time make for a better sentence? 8) What is different about time compared to toys in this case? To me it's because time is equal - while each kid may or may not have toys to play with after a punishment, both sacrifice the same amount of time out of their day.
    1) It means that if you punch someone that is more serious than if you insult them.

    2) What is "this"?

    3) The law makers and/or the judge. Using the example of a roadside dumping fine ($15 to $200) the fine amount usually depends on the amount dumped or clean-up time required and may also depend on one's prior dumping convictions.

    4) All such penalties are arbitrary or you would not have made this poll. The entire idea here seems to be defining the "fair" penalty.

    5) The severity of the infraction means that punching someone would result in a more severe sentence than for merely insulting someone. If that is too subjective for you then stealing a car is more severe than stealing a plastic flamingo from a residence.

    6) The amount of actual damage to the victim or the amount/probability of potential damage. That is why driving with a BAC of .03 is not as serious a driving with a BAC of .24 thus the penalty for the latter is greater.

    7) While everyone does not have toys everyone has time.

    8) In this case, the deprivation time period was fixed, at one week, yet you want us to vary the sentence for the same infraction based on the number of toys that each child has. You seem to think that the number of toys possessed should have some bearing on the sentence imposed while I do not.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #64
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,975

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    Because you're trying to punish equally. The reason should cancel out since you'd be trying to apply the same punishment to both kids. But if you need one, the last one I gave was that they didn't do their homework.
    I see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #65
    Sage
    KevinKohler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,990
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    We can discuss that later (it's already come up). Did you at least answer in this context?
    As a progressive fine question? No, you set the fine, whatever it is, and apply it evenly.

    If the fine for speeding is 150 bucks, so be it. We're spending hours debating a non issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  6. #66
    Sage
    KevinKohler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,990
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    We can discuss that later (it's already come up). Did you at least answer in this context?
    As a progressive fine question? No, you set the fine, whatever it is, and apply it evenly.

    If the fine for speeding is 150 bucks, so be it. We're spending hours debating a non issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  7. #67
    Professor
    pdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Searching for answers.
    Last Seen
    06-30-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,969

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    IF this is genuinly not about progressive fines, and legitimately about how to punish CHILDREN, then A, the punishment should match the crime (I swear by time outs...my kids hate that more than anything else, even spanking), and B, the punishment should not vary from child to child if the crimes are of equal severity.

    In other words, no matter the number of toys, if taking away ALL toys is the punishment, that must be evenly applied. I can't imagine why would want to take away only ONE toy, unless the toy itself is the focus of the misbehavior. Taking away ONE toy, or half of their toys, is a waste of time, IMO.
    I've been clear that I'm interested in the behavioral and punitive aspects of this example, but I don't want to be deceitful and let you believe that this is ONLY about disciplining children. Will I ask you at some point about the application of adults? Maybe. But as stated previously I will entertain the debate of the failed analogy between children and adults if that is your position.

    The question is what component is fair about a time out (also use them a ton) that isn't present with toys. Why is taking away half of their toys a waste of time. To me it's the relationship of that thing of value to the kid. Both kids have the same amount of time in a day. But if you use a unit that is unequal between those two kids, is a kid that had enough insulation from the punishment really being punished the same?

    And I should clarify something - this is not about progressive fines, nor did I seek to absolutely defend progressive fines in the other thread. The bigger question to me is can something with a disparity be an effective and fair punishment. I could easily agree with you - it is pointless to try to make a fair punishment out of an arbitrary quantity of toys.

  8. #68
    Guru
    Declan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 04:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    4,670

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    I never considered this a complex question until recently. I wanted to put it into generic terms and see what kind of responses I got but do it in terms that was a little less loaded. This is largely a social science question regarding concepts like surplus, deprivation, etc.

    This is simply an opinion poll. The boys are the same in each scenario, and you can assume that they misbehaved in the same manner. The number of toys never change. The only thing that changes is the cost of punishment. Choose the one you feel treats both boys with the same degree of punishment and maybe explain why.
    Timmy and Tommy deserve to be beaten down by the police, suffer trials as adults with a public defender, and to be incarcerated for life without parole. This is America damn it--they never earned those toys to begin with. Damn welfare tikes.
    If I blow the conch and they don't come back; then we've had it. We shan't keep the fire going. We'll be like animals. We'll never be rescued.

  9. #69
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,669

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    Because you're trying to punish equally. The reason should cancel out since you'd be trying to apply the same punishment to both kids. But if you need one, the last one I gave was that they didn't do their homework.
    Assuming that a child may play with only one toy at a time, do you wish to simply limit their toy selection options or to deprive them of all toys for that week? The poll choices offered cause this choice to be made.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #70
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:57 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,407

    Re: "Fair" punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    I never considered this a complex question until recently. I wanted to put it into generic terms and see what kind of responses I got but do it in terms that was a little less loaded. This is largely a social science question regarding concepts like surplus, deprivation, etc.

    This is simply an opinion poll. The boys are the same in each scenario, and you can assume that they misbehaved in the same manner. The number of toys never change. The only thing that changes is the cost of punishment. Choose the one you feel treats both boys with the same degree of punishment and maybe explain why.
    I think I would have taken their iPhones and tablets away from them too.

Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •