Is suicide cowardly?

Luftwaffe said:

In your honest opinion, do you believe suicide to be a cowardly act?

Context may be allowed (for those who wish to pick sometimes).

EDIT

*fail* forgot to add poll...

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poll is in.

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It's not a matter of bravery pro or con.

Navy Pride said:

I personally believe anyone that commits suicide is insane.

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In that case.. I respectfully wish you a situation in which you finally realize that death is better then pain.

Crosscheck said:

There have been accounts of a spouse committing suicide after their long term partner has died and really can't call them coward.

Then there are people out there 100 pounds overweight puffing on a cig who are doing a slow suicide , are they cowards?

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Darwinism?

austrianecon said:

This is 100% wrong. I know somebody (a friend I knew since I was 12) who had been fighting cancer (lung) for 4 years. Did it all to try and fight it and was given word he'd die in 6 months. He didn't want to die in a hospital or at home in hospice. He asked/wanted to do have one last hurrah so his family went on a 15 day trip around the world to places he wanted to see (I paid for it all, it was least I could do).. He want to go and see Giza, Paris, the Alps, and watch the sunset in the Ring of Kerry and at the end of last day.. watching the sunset he took his life with his family by his side by overdosing on morphine. It was quiet and as he planned his death. He didn't want to suffer and he didn't want the excess medical bills to cripple his family. So it was quiet brave of him. He knew how many days he had left and didn't get cold feet.

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Something like this is not cowardly imo.

Kal'Stang said:

I don't think it takes any bravery at all if you believe that there is no heaven/hell but instead simply oblivion. Oblivion means that there is no feeling. No punishment. No nothing. That's not bravery. It's simply an escape which is what cowards want. (note: this is ONLY talking about those that do commit suicide for no "valid" reason.)

I'd be more inclined to believe in the "bravery" bit if they were religious and a part of a religion that forbids suicide. At least then they are "risking" going to hell or whatever equivalent their religion holds.

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I don't believe in heaven or hell - and the thought of death and oblivion does frighten me. So yes it does take bravery. To end yourself permanently.

In fact I hold the exact opposite opinion. Those who think they do go somewhere after death - i think are cheating. Trying to cut in line in a sense. Cowardly avoiding life in attempt to get to whatever they think is on the other side.

Zinthaniel said:

I don't believe in heaven or hell - and the thought of death and oblivion does frighten me. So yes it does take bravery. To end yourself permanently.

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For YOU oblivion might frighten you. Oblivion obviously doesn't scare some. Indeed by attempting suicide the person is showing that they are far less fearful of oblivion than continuing on.

Zinthaniel said:

In fact I hold the exact opposite opinion. Those who think they do go somewhere after death - i think are cheating. Trying to cut in line in a sense. Cowardly avoiding life in attempt to get to whatever they think is on the other side.

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Eternal torture vs oblivion....hmmm...I'd take the oblivion in a heartbeat if I had a choice between the two and no other choice at all. Assuming I was suicidal of course.

Kal'Stang said:

It really depends on why you commit suicide. I'm going to speak generally here but please note that this doesn't necessarily apply to EVERYONE. There are always exceptions.

If its due to some chemical imbalance in the brain or always in extreme pain or due to a disease/virus that is 100% going to kill you then most definitely not. If its because you think that the world is out to get you and because nothing ever goes your way then yes it is.

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Really so only if you're involved in a medical situation where you'd die anyway? What's wrong with a person simple being fed up with their own lives with no resources or abilities or support system to change? They should be forced to suffer through their entire lives? That's dumb particularly when we as a planet are experiencing the over-population. If someone wants to die, they should have the right regardless of whether or not anyone thinks they have a "valid" reason. The fact that they themselves see a valid reason should be all that matters.

celticwar17 said:

Fear of confronting trials in their life or repercussions or responsibility?

I think suicide is more of a selfish act than anything.

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And there are times in life where selfishness is exactly what's called for. You try to make it sound like selfishness is a bad thing, when in fact it's what makes the world go round and I have no doubt every poster on here was selfish about some aspect of their lives in the past 24 hours, and the next 24 hours. Humans are selfish, suicide being selfish shouldn't be judged anymore harshly than the selfishness of speeding or taking the biggest portion of something or expecting sex from a partner instead of earning it and so on. For suicide to be bad due to selfishness, we'd have to be a society that believes (by our actions not our words) that selfishness is a bad thing. I don't see too many people actually believing that.

Summerwind said:

Really so only if you're involved in a medical situation where you'd die anyway? What's wrong with a person simple being fed up with their own lives with no resources or abilities or support system to change? They should be forced to suffer through their entire lives? That's dumb particularly when we as a planet are experiencing the over-population. If someone wants to die, they should have the right regardless of whether or not anyone things they have a "valid" reason. The fact that they themselves see a valid reason should be all that matters.

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What a grotesque way to look at the world. In reality there is no valid reason for suicide. The inherent dignity of human personhood does not permit it.

Summerwind said:

And there are times in life where selfishness is exactly what's called for. You try to make it sound like selfishness is a bad thing, when in fact it's what makes the world go round and I have no doubt every poster on here was selfish about some aspect of their lives in the past 24 hours, and the next 24 hours. Humans are selfish, suicide being selfish shouldn't be judged anymore harshly than the selfishness of speeding or taking the biggest portion of something or expecting sex from a partner instead of earning it and so on. For suicide to be bad due to selfishness, we'd have to be a society that believes (by our actions not our words) that selfishness is a bad thing. I don't see too many people actually believing that.

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Geez, we've got Ayn Rand junior over here.

Guy Incognito said:

What a grotesque way to look at the world. In reality there is no valid reason for suicide. The inherent dignity of human personhood does not permit it.

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Bullcrap. Each humans dignity is independent and not all have it or have the same degree. I have no doubt that I'd rather have seen someone like Jeffry Dahmer commit suicide instead of what he did. Or the Boston bombers, or the police officer here in LA who shot someone after a bar disagreement and fled. Sorry, not every human deserves to live, hence not every human thinking about suicide or commiting suicide is "inherently" a person of dignity.

Guy Incognito said:

Geez, we've got Ayn Rand junior over here.

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Any Rand didn't recognize reality, she promoted a particular perspective. I'm not promoting it, simply recognizing it.

Summerwind said:

Really so only if you're involved in a medical situation where you'd die anyway? What's wrong with a person simple being fed up with their own lives with no resources or abilities or support system to change? They should be forced to suffer through their entire lives? That's dumb particularly when we as a planet are experiencing the over-population. If someone wants to die, they should have the right regardless of whether or not anyone things they have a "valid" reason. The fact that they themselves see a valid reason should be all that matters.

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Strawman. I never said that they don't have a right to off themselves. If someone wants to kill themselves, for whatever reason, that is up to them. Not me. But whether someone has a right to kill themselves or not is not what the thread is about. The thread is about whether it is cowardly to commit suicide or not. The poll is open and you can see who voted for what. You'll see that my vote is "depends". And you'll see several posts of mine where I believe that some reasons for committing suicide is an act of cowardice and some are not. Killing oneself due to injuries or medical conditions is valid imo. Killing oneself just because your girlfriend/boyfriend left you is not a valid reason imo and therefore is cowardice to commit suicide.

Next time you try to take someone to task be sure that you have read all of their responses and understand what they are saying and what the thread is about please.

Oh and fyi, the world is not experiencing an over-population problem. According to scientists our worlds maximum "carry" ability is about 9-10 billion which is going to take about another 50-100 years before it hits that at current birth rates. However also according to scientists our worlds birth rate is declining. So by the time we do hit 9-10 billion it will have leveled off to the point where human beings are no longer expanding population wise.

Of course with in 50-100 years I expect, if we played our cards right of course, that we'll have a colony on both Mars and the Moon. Of course I won't hold my breath on that though. But technology wise we could definitely have the ability to be there, particularly since we have the ability now...just don't want to pay for it. I expect that to change though once we do start hitting our peak sustainable level. Either that or a WW happens and our numbers are drastically reduced. So ultimately this is a non-issue.

Luftwaffe said:

In your honest opinion, do you believe suicide to be a cowardly act?

Context may be allowed (for those who wish to pick sometimes).

EDIT

*fail* forgot to add poll...

DOUBLE EDIT

poll is in.

Click to expand...

I don't think so but I do think it likely is an effect of mental illness.

Suicide's kind of none of my business unless it's me considering it or someone in my family.

Impossible to answer the question about being cowardly unless I know the specifics, the impact it had on other people, the reason for it, etc.

By the way, I can say without hesitation that a murder-suicide is cowardly.

Is taking pain medicine cowardly?

tres borrachos said:

Suicide's kind of none of my business unless it's me considering it or someone in my family.

Impossible to answer the question about being cowardly unless I know the specifics, the impact it had on other people, the reason for it, etc.

By the way, I can say without hesitation that a murder-suicide is cowardly.

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Never thought of this. I think it's a rilliant answer and I agree.

Murder suicide in all of its forms is most definitely a cowardly act.

celticwar17 said:

Fear of confronting trials in their life or repercussions or responsibility?

I think suicide is more of a selfish act than anything.

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That is mostly where I am on it. I have known people and of people who committed suicide for some pretty weak reasons--broken romance, career not panning out for them. I mean if you have stage 4 lung cancer and down a bottle of pills, that is one thing, but if you hang yourself so that your partner in a rocky relationship has to be the one to find you, then that is about as selfish and self-involved as it gets.

Summerwind said:

And there are times in life where selfishness is exactly what's called for. You try to make it sound like selfishness is a bad thing, when in fact it's what makes the world go round and I have no doubt every poster on here was selfish about some aspect of their lives in the past 24 hours, and the next 24 hours. Humans are selfish, suicide being selfish shouldn't be judged anymore harshly than the selfishness of speeding or taking the biggest portion of something or expecting sex from a partner instead of earning it and so on. For suicide to be bad due to selfishness, we'd have to be a society that believes (by our actions not our words) that selfishness is a bad thing. I don't see too many people actually believing that.

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Sex as a bargaining chip.:shock:

Kal'Stang said:

Eternal torture vs oblivion....hmmm...I'd take the oblivion in a heartbeat if I had a choice between the two and no other choice at all. Assuming I was suicidal of course.

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The issue here is that you, apparently, think everyone is christian or some other form of Abrahamic theists.
Not every religion threatens eternal damnation. Not everyone who is spiritual or believes in a god or after life follows a religion.

Zinthaniel said:

The issue here is that you, apparently, think everyone is christian or some other form of Abrahamic theists.
Not every religion threatens eternal damnation. Not everyone who is spiritual or believes in a god or after life follows a religion.

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Bold: Nope, I don't think that. However I cannot speak of what I don't know. Can you believe that absolutely no Christian or some other Abrahamic theists or atheist hasn't or won't commit suicide? (I know I wouldn't believe it) If not then its perfectly acceptable to use them as an example. Don't ya think?

Montecresto said:

There are people with physiological troubles that you don't have. Well presumably anyway.

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Your point?

Ought we have suicide booths on the street like in Futurama?

I don't really care if some people have it tougher than others ... that's life. I have had it pretty tough at times, and I didn't take the easy way out and I never would, because I'm not weak.

That might hurt some peoples feelings though...

Neomalthusian said:

In those cases it seems to me to be more of an "I know I'm guilty and will spend most of the rest of my days in prison, so I'm just going to call it quits right now." That's not fear so much as refusal to go through society's protocols for dealing with them.



Its result is a complete elimination of the self, so I don't see how it could ever be construed as "selfish."

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I don't think those are most cases of that. There are many with family responsibilities that just "can't" handle it. ANY responsibilities actually that people feel trapped or can't get out of...

And no, elimination of yourself so you don't have to worry, care, or endure anything about anyone anymore is selfish when you have people in your life that care, love, and rely on you.

Summerwind said:

And there are times in life where selfishness is exactly what's called for. You try to make it sound like selfishness is a bad thing, when in fact it's what makes the world go round and I have no doubt every poster on here was selfish about some aspect of their lives in the past 24 hours, and the next 24 hours. Humans are selfish, suicide being selfish shouldn't be judged anymore harshly than the selfishness of speeding or taking the biggest portion of something or expecting sex from a partner instead of earning it and so on. For suicide to be bad due to selfishness, we'd have to be a society that believes (by our actions not our words) that selfishness is a bad thing. I don't see too many people actually believing that.

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cool... maybe suicide should just be accepted as one of the way people choose to go huh?

Suicide booths in futurama? Just pop in a quarter and enter then thing, it'll take care of it.

lol, I find it very strange people love to empathize with people killing themselves, it's as if they want it to become something popular...

a351 said:

It can be, but it's also rather arrogant of others to assume it to be without knowing the circumstances.

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I pretty much agree with this. I believe it *can be* cowardly, but it depends on the circumstances and would be pretty rare. To be honest I cannot think of an example where it would be, though I'm sure there are some examples. I don't want to be absolute as almost nothing is 100% absolute. Fact is that the innate human will to live is exceedingly strong and a person usually goes through a great deal to get past that. It is no small decision.