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Is suicide cowardly?

is suicide a cowardly act?

  • Total voters
    69
Summerwind said:
Absolutely, let's have suicide booths, wtf they are. The empathy is with whatever pain or agony, real or imagined, that causes a person to decide no input or output is better than one more day of input. You claim you've been down and out, but you don't type like someone who has any understanding or empathy for what some people have to live with.
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A suicide booth is chilling on the street and you walk into it... put a quarter in and it completely obliterates your body no questions asked.

Hmmm I have expectations and pressures on myself to be strong and not weak... and I respect those that do as well. And I'm not here to spill my life story, but I assure you I've dealt with deaths, suicides, bankruptcies, and abandonment directly. I don't expect everyone to be strong... I don'texpect everyone to be perfect...
But suicide IS where I draw the line... sorry...It puts to much pain on everyone around the individual... and often abandons little children without a father or mother who grow up thinking their parent who would rather die than live with them...
 
Montecresto said:
Your partner has to "earn" your sex. If so, I find that hilarity.
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I have no partner, so it's no longer an issue for me. And yes, male or female, married or not, one should be earning the sexual attention of others, not expecting it. It's like earning respect, it's a daily and ongoing effort. To think you or anyone should ever just "expect" sex from someone who may or may not desire to offer it to you just because they are your partner is akin to rape.
 
celticwar17 said:
I do fear death... but do people not have a responsibility to others they coexist with? Friends and family and children?
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Perhaps, but they have no responsibility to you. If their friends and families are fine with it, why is it your business to criticize them, except your fear?
 
iliveonramen said:
Because I think whatever the surrounding circumstance is we shouldn't be judging someone that killed themselves.

If we want to discourage suicide (which we should) we should focus on providing care and helping the loved ones identify the signs. I don't think classifying it as cowardly really discourages it
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Depends on the person I would imagine. If someone is really hooked up on appearances and doesn't want others to think them a coward then its quite possible that openly considering suicide as cowardly could discourage that person from committing it. This of course wouldn't apply to those that don't give 2 cents about appearances. But there are enough self centered people in this world...heck in this country alone...that I don't see this as an impossibility.
 
Montecresto said:
Your partner has to "earn" your sex. If so, I find that hilarity.
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I don't. My wife expects me to earn it just as I expect her to earn it. Its about mutual respect in my book. If my wife says "no" I sure as heck am not going to force myself on her because I think I deserve it or because I expect her to put out. Her body is hers, not mine and my body is mine, not hers.
 
celticwar17 said:
Fear of confronting trials in their life or repercussions or responsibility?

I think suicide is more of a selfish act than anything.
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No it is not.
Have you ever known someone in the depths of a mental illness.?
Sat and talked with them?
Known any that have taken their lives due to the hell they were in mentally?
I have.
Thinking it is selfish or a cowards way out, well clearly this is a subject where some should educate and reevaluate their self righteous judgements.
Yeah, last line is rude.
But my opinion is based upon what I have seen and what some others tried to live thru, they did not make that trip back from hell.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I don't. My wife expects me to earn it just as I expect her to earn it. Its about mutual respect in my book. If my wife says "no" I sure as heck am not going to force myself on her because I think I deserve it or because I expect her to put out. Her body is hers, not mine and my body is mine, not hers.
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Oh Come on Kal, I get all that, who doesn't? That's just common respect and love. "Earn" lol, so do you have a score card, perhaps you use the gold star system, what's the jackpot. I shared this with my wife and the woman in our office, and they unanimously laughed. Of course they all wish to be respected and not forced upon, but then that goes without saying, they just laughed at the notion of earned as I have.
 
Montecresto said:
Oh Come on Kal, I get all that, who doesn't? That's just common respect and love. "Earn" lol, so do you have a score card, perhaps you use the gold star system, what's the jackpot. I shared this with my wife and the woman in our office, and they unanimously laughed. Of course they all wish to be respected and not forced upon, but then that goes without saying, they just laughed at the notion of earned as I have.
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Perhaps its just the word "earned" that you all are having trouble with. There are many ways to earn such. The simplest being simply showing your love in the smallest of ways. Say, a caress across the cheek. A look. etc etc. I do everything I can to earn my wife's love every single day. Even though I know I already have it. I know that I can also lose it.

Anyways, this is getting a bit off topic. Lets end with this shall we? ;)
 
I don't see suicide as a cowardly act but in many cases it could be viewed as a selfish act.
I've never felt that desperate or hopeless to want to take my life and never will. I think faith has a lot to do with that one which in itself gives one hope.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Please read my sig and apply appropriately. :)
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well if you were speaking in absolutes then you are wrong.

Not every theist who commits suicide believes in eternal damnation. So the notion that theist are brave and those who kill themselves with the understanding that there is only oblivion after death are cowards, for whatever personal arbitrary reason you have deemed, remains unfounded.
 
celticwar17 said:
I've seen enough on how suicides destroy families and loved ones... it's a very selfish act to take the easy way out. The circumstances... obviously matter though... but I would say most suicides are selfish...
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funny cause it's often the "loved ones" who drive them to suicide

as if it's not selfish either to expect someone to continue suffering for one's own benefit
 
celticwar17 said:
I do fear death... but do people not have a responsibility to others they coexist with? Friends and family and children?
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children yes, others not so much
 
Circumstances dictate the response. A man like Himmler deserves the coward label, whereas, say, the increasing number of Native American young people committing suicide absolutely do not deserve that label. In general the perception should be that it is tragic rather than cowardice.

Furthermore, the attempt to frame it as selfish (in the pejorative sense) is both unhelpful and ends up encouraging the continued silence of those who are at-risk of suicidal behavior. As I have said many times since I was a pre-teen (being myself a person who attempted suicide before my teen years), that I was indeed overwhelmingly focused on my own needs. I was also convinced that those around me either did not feel the same love about me that I needed or that they would have been better off without me. When discussing someone that going through a mental health crisis, I very much like to remind people that of course they are focused on themselves. They are at the point where they are having difficulty coping with their own existence. What do you expect of them at that point? Complete selflessness? Good grief! There is something wrong going on with their perception of self and there may be many things wrong going on in their lives. You don't fault that person for being so focused on their own needs, because they should be. Instead, you focus on what you can do to help that person through what is going on in their lives and try to get them help.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
What a grotesque way to look at the world. In reality there is no valid reason for suicide. The inherent dignity of human personhood does not permit it.
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said everyone until in they're in stage 4 cancer - there is no dignity, or personhood for that matter, in pointless suffering
 
vesper said:
I don't see suicide as a cowardly act but in many cases it could be viewed as a selfish act.
I've never felt that desperate or hopeless to want to take my life and never will. I think faith has a lot to do with that one which in itself gives one hope.
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OK here goes
Traumatic brain injury
Combat Veterans

Fast Facts:
• Autopsies of combat veterans who survived IEDs and later died of other causes reveal a unique pattern of injuries in parts of the brain involved in decision making, memory, reasoning and other executive functions.
• The honeycomb pattern of IED survivors’ brain injury is different than the effects of motor vehicle crashes, opiate overdoses or punch-drunk syndrome
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After Wartime TBI Or Concussion, Psychological (Not Cognitive) Symptoms Predict Which Soldiers Suffer Long-Term Disability

Twenty percent of those deployed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan suffered a head injury. Of these, the greater portion (83 percent) endured either a concussion or TBI (traumatic brain injury). Researchers at Washington University partnered with the U.S. military and the Naval Medical Center Portsmouth in Virginia to study the effects of such injuries.
For the study, 72 total participants, including 34 controls and 38 TBI patients, completed an initial evaluation in Afghanistan (within one week after the head trauma for the injured), and a follow-up exam six months to a year later in Saint Louis. The participants' ages ranged from 19 to 44. While the two groups were very similar, their exact demographic characteristics were not identical.
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So as your brain lose function, you are at age 25 to 35, and will end up in a long term facility with having no basic abilities to even care for yourself. Looking at 30, 40 years in a bed, possibly/probably restrained and such.
Onset of can be quite quick.
What do you think many Soldiers do when confronted with this?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Oh and fyi, the world is not experiencing an over-population problem. According to scientists our worlds maximum "carry" ability is about 9-10 billion which is going to take about another 50-100 years before it hits that at current birth rates. However also according to scientists our worlds birth rate is declining. So by the time we do hit 9-10 billion it will have leveled off to the point where human beings are no longer expanding population wise.

Of course with in 50-100 years I expect, if we played our cards right of course, that we'll have a colony on both Mars and the Moon. Of course I won't hold my breath on that though. But technology wise we could definitely have the ability to be there, particularly since we have the ability now...just don't want to pay for it. I expect that to change though once we do start hitting our peak sustainable level. Either that or a WW happens and our numbers are drastically reduced. So ultimately this is a non-issue.
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Quality of life matters, and i would hate to be around during when capacity is reached. People already have to wear masks in the streets in major cities/pollution centers. Driving by gary indiana i almost threw up

It's not just about people either. Another prediction is that by 2100, there will be another 'mass extinction,' brought on entirely by humans. Almost all non-insect species will be gone.

And move to Mars, why? So we can **** up that planet too?

We should maybe set up an 'age maximum' where the elderly are given hemlock or some such, along with a forced castration program
 
chromium said:
funny cause it's often the "loved ones" who drive them to suicide

as if it's not selfish either to expect someone to continue suffering for one's own benefit
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And it isn't uncommon for someone to think they're either being a burden, or to think that their loved ones would be better off without them. That's not selfish at all.
 
JANFU said:
OK here goes
Traumatic brain injury
Combat Veterans

After Wartime TBI Or Concussion, Psychological (Not Cognitive) Symptoms Predict Which Soldiers Suffer Long-Term Disability



So as your brain lose function, you are at age 25 to 35, and will end up in a long term facility with having no basic abilities to even care for yourself. Looking at 30, 40 years in a bed, possibly/probably restrained and such.
Onset of can be quite quick.
What do you think many Soldiers do when confronted with this?
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Evening JANFU

That's a very hard place to be......but many take their own lives because the are so wrapped up in their own pain, whether it be mental of physical. Self. One way to break through that is to start doing for others, giving yourself to those around you who are in need taking the focus off self and focus on another. You know I watched people with terminal illness which involved a need for pain medication just to tolerate it use their time that was limited, instead of ending their life because of it spent their final days giving in what capacity they could to others. It's been a great life lesson for me should I reach that point one day.
 
vesper said:
Evening JANFU

That's a very hard place to be......but many take their own lives because the are so wrapped up in their own pain, whether it be mental of physical. Self..
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Yeah, that's because they need help, not scorn.
 
Fiddytree said:
Yeah, that's because they need help, not scorn.
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Fiddytree, I am nobody's judge. I leave that to someone much greater than me. But in observation, I have known of folks who took their own life when they had so much to live for. And bottom line it had to do with being focused on self. What a waste.
 
vesper said:
Fiddytree, I am nobody's judge. I leave that to someone much greater than me. But in observation, I have known of folks who took their own life when they had so much to live for. And bottom line it had to do with being focused on self. What a waste.
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So why the scorn? They needed help and support to get through the issues they were dealing with. I have no idea what point people have when they say folks like me were/ are focused on their problems. Well, yes, that's the most basic component of depression and suicidal intentions. There's many reasons for that, including a chemical imbalance. In addition to any medications or even restrictive placements, You have to work on getting that persons concept of self and their support structures back in place to help remove the likelihood of suicide.

Just because you are confident and content with life doesn't somehow mean that those of us who tragically experience a different view are assholes. We need help, not your indignations.
 
Fiddytree said:
So why the scorn? They needed help and support to get through the issues they were dealing with. I have no idea what point people have when they say folks like me were/ are focused on their problems. Well, yes, that's the most basic component of depression and suicidal intentions. There's many reasons for that, including a chemical imbalance. In addition to any medications or even restrictive placements, You have to work on getting that persons concept of self and their support structures back in place to help remove the likelihood of suicide.
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What scorn Fiddytree? Just stating observations I have encounter over the years and know those who are wallowing in self pity and reach a point of hopelessness could find hope in helping another which takes the focus off of them. If their imbalance is due to a drug, the doctors should do a better job in caring for their patients.
Just because you are confident and content with life doesn't somehow mean that those of us who tragically experience a different view are assholes. We need help, not your indignations.
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I'm not calling anyone an asshole. What I have simply stated is that when those who are depressed and see no hope, go help another. In doing so you will find new hope.
 
vesper said:
What scorn Fiddytree? Just stating observations I have encounter over the years and know those who are wallowing in self pity and reach a point of hopelessness could find hope in helping another which takes the focus off of them. If their imbalance is due to a drug, the doctors should do a better job in caring for their patients.

I'm not calling anyone an asshole. What I have simply stated is that when those who are depressed and see no hope, go help another. In doing so you will find new hope.
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Your linguistics continue to show a disconnect between your perception of how you come across and how you actually comes across. You never tell people this is selfish, because it only continues the stigmatization of mental illness, forcing people to hide their problems in front of others and make them feel ashamed of their depression and suicide. All the meanwhile there's little that is promoted to ensure that person has a healthier profile.

While it is always good to help others you can't merely say that they should stop wallowing in self pity and just help others. You often have to address problems in their own lives and their perceptions of self to get anywhere. The chemical imbalance issue is in reference to an existing chemical imbalance that is often corrected by medications, healthy diets, exercise, and so on.

You don't usually help the depressed and suicidal by having a cavalier attitude toward their sufferings. They often need to make sure it is addressed head on. And many times it will always be with them, coming in waves, sometimes fine for years and then a wave hits and it is with them for another period of time.
 
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