View Poll Results: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

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Thread: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

  1. #221
    Sage

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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That's your problem right there. IF THEY HAVE THE MEANS TO DO IT. Humans simply don't have the horses to be proprietors the natural resources of nature. All such false claims of proprietorship will be rendered sterile in the due course of time.
    Of course they do. People can own natural resources or the products made from natural resources just fine. There is nothing about natural resources that makes them unable to be owned.

    The labor of your body is made possible by taking the goods and resources of nature which you did not create. You did not make the air that you breath, you did not make the water that you drink, you did not make the sunshine. None of these things came into existence by your labor. Furthermore, you did not make the body, the brain, the heart, the hands, the feet nor the legs that you have. As such, in reality, you own nothing.
    The labor of your body is made possible by your facilities, which is a product of your body. You do not need to create something in order to own it, but simply have control over it, which is perfectly possible with natural resources such as water, coal, gold, iron, etc. Air can not owned since it can not be controlled.

  2. #222
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Of course they do. People can own natural resources or the products made from natural resources just fine. There is nothing about natural resources that makes them unable to be owned.

    The labor of your body is made possible by your facilities, which is a product of your body. You do not need to create something in order to own it, but simply have control over it, which is perfectly possible with natural resources such as water, coal, gold, iron, etc. Air can not owned since it can not be controlled.
    You can huff and puff until you blue in the face, but that house is made of bricks. Such claims will be rendered sterile, of this, there is no doubt.

  3. #223
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Hmmm... I wonder... if forcing someone to provide medical care against their wishes is wrong, what does this mean regarding taxes?

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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Regarding taxes

    During 1999 through 2001, Snipes avoided $7 million in taxes but I’ll bet he would have paid it willingly had he known what was coming. Whatever you may think of Mr. Snipes, it seems clear he was led astray. Snipes followed an accountant and an anti-tax advocate down a dangerous path, but it was still his responsibility.

    The advisers claimed they did not legally have to pay taxes. One of Snipes’ original defenses was that he was relying on Eddie Ray Kahn and Douglas P. Rosile. They were convicted by the same jury of tax fraud and conspiracy and both got longer prison terms than Mr. Snipes. Still, Snipes must have been surprised by the trial, which was shorter than anticipated.

    Snipes was such a well-known figure and high earner—about $40 million from 1999 to 2004—that not paying taxes was hard to fathom. The big victory for Snipes was that he was acquitted of felony tax fraud and conspiracy and only convicted of misdemeanor charges. See Wesley Snipes Turns 50 In Prison But Didn’t File False Tax Return. But that meant up to 3 years, which he got.

    Snipes appealed, argued his sentence was unreasonable, and even claimed he couldn’t get a fair trial in Ocala, Florida because of his race. Even the U.S. Supreme Court turned him down. Post prison, I imagine Mr. Snipes might dispense the following advice, though these are my assumptions, not his words:

    Don’t Argue Our Tax System is Voluntary. This is self-explanatory. Forget it.

    Don’t Use Off-beat Definitions of Income. Don’t argue wages, tips, and other compensation received for personal services are not income. Avoid saying Federal Reserve Notes are not income or that only foreign-source income is taxable, making domestic income exempt. This has variations, but this is what ensnared Mr. Snipes.

    Don’t Argue Over Terms in the Tax Code. Avoid arguing that a taxpayer is not a “citizen” of the U.S. and thus not subject to tax laws. Avoid claiming the U.S. consists only of the District of Columbia, federal territories, and federal enclaves. Don’t argue that only employees of the federal government are subject to federal income tax.

    Steer Clear of Constitutional Claims. Arguments based on the First, Fifth, Thirteenth and Sixteenth Amendments to our Constitution include such “nice try” claims as: Taxpayers can refuse to pay income taxes on religious or moral grounds by invoking the First Amendment; Federal income taxes constitute a “taking” without due process; and compelled compliance with federal income tax laws is servitude violating the Thirteenth Amendment.

    Don’t Assert Fictional Legal Theories. Avoid these “fictional” claims: The IRS is not an agency of the U.S. (You lose.) Taxpayers are not required to file a federal income tax return because the instructions to Form 1040 and tax regulations don’t display an OMB control number as required by the Paperwork Reduction Act. (No again.) Don’t claim you’re a church. Don’t buy “untaxing” trusts or other deals that sound like infomercials.

    Be Careful Relying on Others. This may be the most important lesson of all. If something sounds too good to be true, it may be. Stay free, Wesley.
    Legally don't have to pay taxes?????? Damn, that is stupid. How the hell could anyone fall for that? Amazing!

    Wesley Snipes Freed--Tax Lessons Remain - Forbes

  5. #225
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    You can huff and puff until you blue in the face, but that house is made of bricks. Such claims will be rendered sterile, of this, there is no doubt.
    Yes, so what would make the claims sterile? I imagine it will be some sort of coercion that will bring this about, yes?

  6. #226
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, so what would make the claims sterile? I imagine it will be some sort of coercion that will bring this about, yes?
    Oh, believe me, you will definitely find out.

    There was an old Led Zeppelin song that had some lyrics

    The train is at the station
    Leaving for your destination
    But the price you pay to nowhere
    Has increased a dollar more
    And if you walk you're gonna get there
    Tho it takes a little longer
    And when you see it in the distance
    You will wring your hands and moan

  7. #227
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Do you think the poor have a right to life, and therefore emergency medical care?
    I do not believe they have the right to obtain or demand professional professional services of any type without compensating the service provider, however I do believe that the public at large should consent to paying through taxes the cost of emergency medical care for the indigent.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  8. #228
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Do you think the poor have a right to life, and therefore emergency medical care?
    The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is an act of the United States Congress, passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals that accept payments from Medicare to provide emergency health care treatment to anyone needing it regardless of citizenship, legal status, or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #229
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Do you think the poor have a right to life, and therefore emergency medical care?
    Let's take this a little further:

    The poor have a right to life, therefore:

    They have a right to free medical care.

    By that light they have a right to free food, clothing and shelter and the rest of us are forced to provide it.

    No, there can be no right to medical care because it would mean other people are forced to provide that care, other people are stripped of their rights. What if the others refused to provide that care? Would they be thrown in jail? You can't enslave one group to provide for another.

    In our society we often choose to care for poor people out of a sense of charity. We choose to do this through the democratic process in which our preferences are represented. But if that care is a right then there's no choice about whether to provide it. This is not sustainable.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  10. #230
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    Re: Should hospitals be forced to give emergency care to the poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think that in any advanced and civilized society, that yes even the poor deserve and should receive emergency medical care. They are human beings and we have the means and capacity to help them. And if we’re such a “Christian” nation, how could it be any other way? In general, I think we should have a for real universal healthcare system that is open to all citizens and provides some amount of basic medical care.
    Saying we should provide for such people and saying that they have a right to be provided for are two different things.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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