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Should the U. S. Government Monitor DP For Potential Threats?

Should the U. S. Government Monitor DP For Potential Threats?

  • Total voters
    38
Sherman123 said:
They monitor thousands of forums in an effort to ferret out would be Islamist militants, fellow travelers, and the like. It's how those three men who were en route to Syria to join the Islamic State were captured. This is a forum viewable by anyone in the world with an uncensored internet connection and if someone in the FBI or wherever happens to find something actionable on here I don't really see the problem. The way I see it talking on a forum is essentially the same as talking 'in public' with the one caveat being we use usernames instead of our real names. Monitoring this public fora shouldn't be an excuse for violating or exposing privacy.
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I'd agree. This isn't a private communication between two people We post here knowing anyone can see it. It's like writing a letter to the editor.
 
Montecresto said:
Well I'm sorry your tipping point is so generous towards government profiling. You and I viewing a forum don't have the infrastructure nor all the other information on posters here that the government, with the help of google and the NSA do have to analyze and profile Americans with.
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You seem to not comprehend my position, so I'll just leave it at that. I can't think of a more clear way of stating my position, but isn't what you're presenting it as in your rehash. So either you're intentionally misrepresenting or you're having comprehension issues.
 
Paschendale said:
Not without a warrant they shouldn't.
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if anyone on these boards has an expectation of privacy, you are nuts for thinking that

and message boards, and socials networks have been watched for well over a decade now

is most of it a waste a time? you bet

is most just done with computers? you bet

this is an OPEN forum.....dont expect what you type to be free from perusal
 
Can someone explain to me why I have to expect privacy for the government not to spy on me? Exactly why do I need to be in lets say a damn changing room or something for the government not to have a monitoring system up my ass?
 
for that answer, please read George Orwell's book 1984

big brother is here.....in more ways than people care to think about

in some ways it is disconcerting.....

in other ways, i understand why it is happening
 
Montecresto said:
And in case it's been awhile since you've thought about it, or never known about Frank Church and the Church Committee, and it's conclusions in 1975, here it is again. See how you think this matches up with what the chief executive chairmen of google said above.

"In the need to develop a capacity to know what potential enemies are doing, the United States government has perfected a technological capability that enables us to monitor the messages that go through the air. Now, that is necessary and important to the United States as we look abroad at enemies or potential enemies. We must know, at the same time, that capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left such is the capability to monitor everything—telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter. There would be no place to hide."
"If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology."

Church Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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And lets remember that governments have killed their own citizens and prevented or ended uprisings due to information they gathered from spying.
 
gdgyva said:
if anyone on these boards has an expectation of privacy, you are nuts for thinking that

and message boards, and socials networks have been watched for well over a decade now

is most of it a waste a time? you bet

is most just done with computers? you bet

this is an OPEN forum.....dont expect what you type to be free from perusal
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The argument that merely because the government can access information means they should be allowed to is nonsense. The government can break into your home and steal whatever it wants. It can kill you whenever it wants. It can enslave you if it wants. Obviously, it is not allowed to do these things. We shouldn't need to use overt secrecy to have protection against spying from our own government.
 
Henrin said:
And lets remember that governments have killed their own citizens and prevented or ended uprisings due to information they gathered from spying.
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Are you to say you're a proponent of dragnet spying?
 
Montecresto said:
Are you to say you're a proponent of dragnet spying?
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No, I'm saying that for centuries governments have spied on their citizens and have even went so far as to kill them due to information they found out. The people that support governments spying on their citizens seriously need to learn their history.
 
Henrin said:
No, I'm saying that for centuries governments have spied on their citizens and have even went so far as to kill them due to information they found out. The people that support governments spying on their citizens seriously need to learn their history.
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Oh thank god. Ok yes indeed, we agree.
 
Henrin said:
Can someone explain to me why I have to expect privacy for the government not to spy on me? Exactly why do I need to be in lets say a damn changing room or something for the government not to have a monitoring system up my ass?
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Don't post on a public forum. Your neighbor, your boss, your children's teacher - they all can see what you post here. So can the govt.

At least this forum allows aliases, so it would take a warrant to find out your real identity.

It's the govt's job to protect us from threats - as long as they work in a legal manner. Scrolling a public website has got to be legal, because anyone can do it.
 
Paschendale said:
The argument that merely because the government can access information means they should be allowed to is nonsense. The government can break into your home and steal whatever it wants. It can kill you whenever it wants. It can enslave you if it wants. Obviously, it is not allowed to do these things. We shouldn't need to use overt secrecy to have protection against spying from our own government.
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It can't break into your home. It CAN drive by your house and take a look at the front of it to see if you have an enemy flag flying.
 
Exaggerates this place's importance, don't you think?
 
paddymcdougall said:
Don't post on a public forum. Your neighbor, your boss, your children's teacher - they all can see what you post here. So can the govt.

At least this forum allows aliases, so it would take a warrant to find out your real identity.

It's the govt's job to protect us from threats - as long as they work in a legal manner. Scrolling a public website has got to be legal, because anyone can do it.
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Just because we can do something doesn't mean the government should be able to do it. Saying that, how many of us are storing everything said online on hard drives? How many of us are using software to scan for word usage and then sending out our goons when someone says something we deemed as wrong? I doubt many of us and I doubt it would be legal if we did decide to do it.
 
Henrin said:
Just because we can do something doesn't mean the government should be able to do it. Saying that, how many of us are storing everything said online on hard drives? How many of us are using software to scan for word usage and then sending out our goons when someone says something we deemed as wrong? I doubt many of us and I doubt it would be legal if we did decide to do it.
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{shrug} bring it up with your lawyer.

I think the govt has the right - and the obligation - to monitor public sites for threats to our country. Anyone with any expectation that their posts are somehow "private" when the entire world can read them is sadly mistaken.

Again, to retrieve info to find us in "real life" should require a warrant, absolutely. But to read these posts? nope.
 
Henrin said:
Just because we can do something doesn't mean the government should be able to do it. Saying that, how many of us are storing everything said online on hard drives? How many of us are using software to scan for word usage and then sending out our goons when someone says something we deemed as wrong? I doubt many of us and I doubt it would be legal if we did decide to do it.
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Oh, and if you wanted to use some kind of word sniffer to go through this site - or you did a lot of searches looking for certain words -I'm sure that's legal, although not sure if it's against the site's terms of service we agreed to when we signed up. But if you never signed up....
 
MildSteel said:
What do you think?
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The government has no business monitoring websites.Monitoring website is a search. In order to conduct a search the government needs a warrant based upon probable cause.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized
 
paddymcdougall said:
{shrug} bring it up with your lawyer.

I think the govt has the right - and the obligation - to monitor public sites for threats to our country. Anyone with any expectation that their posts are somehow "private" when the entire world can read them is sadly mistaken.

Again, to retrieve info to find us in "real life" should require a warrant, absolutely. But to read these posts? nope.
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They are not just reading the page like you or me, but looking for patterns and storing everything we type to be used against us if ever do anything they find criminal.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Oh, and if you wanted to use some kind of word sniffer to go through this site - or you did a lot of searches looking for certain words -I'm sure that's legal, although not sure if it's against the site's terms of service we agreed to when we signed up. But if you never signed up....
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I highly doubt the government would like any us storing everything ever said online and then using that information against a fellow citizen.
 
11Bravo said:
Meh, I'll google the SC to find the exact text. I did various studies and contracts with the gvt. I learned a lot of the years.

This came up a million times. I've asked them many times a well (both in when I was in school, and working). They cannot legally monitor, as in task a position, to speech, without a warrant.

However, they could easily get one, and that warrant could not have an expiration date for a very long time.

Always ways around the system.

But to answer your question, let me do some googling
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I would be interested to know the answer to that.
 
NIMBY said:
Home-grown terrorists like McVeigh are much more of a concern to me than government surveillance, along with his supporters.
Surveillance was developed in response to these Okla Cty type catastrophies.

Since I'm not doing anything wrong in RL or online, I'm willing to bend on the 1st, 2nd and 4th amendments for the common good.
IMHO, people mistakenly try to act like 2015 should be treated like 1789 when the Constitution was written .
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Well I don't know about that bending stuff. You give people an inch, they will take a mile.
 
DaveFagan said:
I would suggest that they not only monitor, but have a coterie of agents who's job is to participate in the forums and project the "Perception Management" agendas of the gov't. NSA is in the crack of everyone's ass due to the Patriot Act and illegal surveillance and since Edward Snowden we know that to be true. Snowden reveals the criminality and he is pursued as the culprit. Same for Julian Assange. You, me, Grandma and the dog are the ones getting screwed, don't ya' know?
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It would not be a surprise. It sure is a big waste of money if that's the case tho.
 
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