View Poll Results: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

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  • Yes

    108 49.77%
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    70 32.26%
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    26 11.98%
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    13 5.99%
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Thread: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

  1. #621
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    I'm going to ask you one last time Monty, and if you dodge the question again; we're through here!

    Will preventing Iran from building nuclear bombs make the world a safer place??? Yes? or No?
    Of course it will, I thought I've already answered that. I've also long supported global nuclear eradication, that would make the world even safer. There are six countries fast at work to ensure that Iran doesn't develop nuclear weapons and establish a system to verify that end. I think you need to stop worrying, and fear mongering about Iran.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #622
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Of course it will, I thought I've already answered that.
    Then why all the fuss about halting the spread of nukes to Iran and other such nations, not yet so equipped?!

    I've also long supported global nuclear eradication, that would make the world even safer.
    Really Monty; and what sane rational human being doesn't, for chrisake?!

    Are you aware that the first step in the "eradication" of nuclear bombs is preventing new ones from being built?!

    The problem Monty; is that your so-called "support" almost entirely involves bashing the United States which is why no one except a handful of other America hating radicals bother to take you seriously_

    Like most leftists; you believe it is more important to hate America than to actually solve a problem!

    There are six countries fast at work to ensure that Iran doesn't develop nuclear weapons and establish a system to verify that end.
    And what difference does that make when the only plan proposed by the most powerful man in the world ensures that Iran will develop nuclear weapons?!

    I think you need to stop worrying, and fear mongering about Iran.
    Reacting to a threat delivered by radical religious/political leaders of a known terrorist nation is not "fear mongering"!

    But you consider such fear to be irrational__"Fear is a survival tool / Irrational fear is paranoia"

    Poor Monty; do you seriously believe anyone who considers a nuclear armed Iran as a threat, is actually irrational?

    Especially when 300+million Americans must rely on the weakest US President in history, to neutralize this threat!
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

  3. #623
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Then why all the fuss about halting the spread of nukes to Iran and other such nations, not yet so equipped?!

    Really Monty; and what sane rational human being doesn't, for chrisake?!

    Are you aware that the first step in the "eradication" of nuclear bombs is preventing new ones from being built?!

    The problem Monty; is that your so-called "support" almost entirely involves bashing the United States which is why no one except a handful of other America hating radicals bother to take you seriously_

    Like most leftists; you believe it is more important to hate America than to actually solve a problem!

    And what difference does that make when the only plan proposed by the most powerful man in the world ensures that Iran will develop nuclear weapons?!

    Reacting to a threat delivered by radical religious/political leaders of a known terrorist nation is not "fear mongering"!

    But you consider such fear to be irrational__"Fear is a survival tool / Irrational fear is paranoia"

    Poor Monty; do you seriously believe anyone who considers a nuclear armed Iran as a threat, is actually irrational?

    Especially when 300+million Americans must rely on the weakest US President in history, to neutralize this threat!
    Right, you're reduced to name calling, and questioning loyalty as you show up regularly to **** on the president. I support the work of the P5+1, which would deny Iranian nukes. I don't know what you support other than war, WAR!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #624
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well certainly, shame on the Japanese for many things that day and time. You can however characterize civilian cities targeted as being military targets all you wish, it cannot change the fact that civilians are not legitimate military targets and your attempts to justify it aren't as sick as the acts themselves, but deplorable, nevertheless.
    An excellent article discussing the morality of the situation. I do have some disagreement but not a lot. I suspect the same is true for you: The Atomic Bombings Reconsidered | Foreign Affairs. The last section entitled "THE REDEFINITION OF MORALITY" acknowledges your position and doesn't necessarily agree with mine. Again, I look at it in the context of the times and what was known and the decision Truman made. An atomic bomb had never been used so it wasn't entirely clear what would happen, including it being a dud.

    I never said that this was a proud moment for the US, but I understand why it was done. The fact that there were so many civilians did not keep these cities from being targeted, but I do not believe that there was any reason to avoid them--again, in the context of the situation and the times. Wars are bad, and no war is better than a short war and a short war is better than a long one. I also believe that having real life examples of the horrors of atomic and nuclear weapons has been a valuable lesson in the horrors of their use. My point that targeting a bomb to hit a target doesn't mean that civilians were specifically targeted. As the article indicated, the War changed the standards of morality and not necessarily for the better. You don't care about that context but I'm satisfied my point has been made.

  5. #625
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Let's get one thing out of the way. I'm not a Christian and I'm uninterested in Christian teaching on war. Christian teaching is second only to Islamic teaching in justifying war. I much prefer the practical calculus of the veteran warrior, which almost always results in fewer deaths. The War Department projection of 46,000 dead is what Giangreco demonstrates was always a phony number. His work relies on previously unknown or ignored documents that were never part of any narrative, conventional or otherwise.
    That doesn't mean the projections were A) valid, or B) unchallenged, or C) something that ends the debate. Nor does it change that terror was used to make political gain, and on civilians not soldiers. This was immoral, Christian or not. Christianity is just one one moral gauge. It might be practical to kill children or rape women, but that practicality won't make it moral.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #626
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    And btw, the "deeply flawed" accusation against Giangreco's work predates Hell to Pay by seven years. Game, set, match.
    Not really. Those arguments haven't gone away.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #627
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really. Those arguments haven't gone away.
    You yourself are evidence they have not gone away, but they have been rendered obsolete.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That doesn't mean the projections were A) valid, or B) unchallenged, or C) something that ends the debate. Nor does it change that terror was used to make political gain, and on civilians not soldiers. This was immoral, Christian or not. Christianity is just one one moral gauge. It might be practical to kill children or rape women, but that practicality won't make it moral.
    Those deaths prevented millions more. The decision to use the bombs was a great moral achievement -- something to be proud of, and something for which American soldiers and all Japanese can be grateful.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #629
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You yourself are evidence they have not gone away, but they have been rendered obsolete.
    No they haven't, for the reasons I stated.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #630
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Those deaths prevented millions more. The decision to use the bombs was a great moral achievement -- something to be proud of, and something for which American soldiers and all Japanese can be grateful.
    No, that is not fact. That is supposition. And it doesn't address the reasoning either. These were civilian deaths, innocent women and children and not soldiers. Terror from above, murder. Not war. Not soldiers. Not combatants. Not collateral, but deliberate. Targeted civilians.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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