View Poll Results: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

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  • Yes

    108 49.77%
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    70 32.26%
  • Maybe/not sure

    26 11.98%
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    13 5.99%
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Thread: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

  1. #521
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Typical liberal response. So you tell Iran to build all the nuks they want so in your mind they will not. That is the most naive comment I've ever heard.
    And of course, instead of even attempting to give diplomacy a chance, you want to go to war, go directly to war, do not pass "Go".

    Diplomacy my ass. Obama telling Putin to not invade Ukraine, christ Putin tells Obama to jump and how high.
    When you're the president, and you're the one who has to decide to get involved militarily and risk escalation to a general thermonuclear exchange which would destroy America and most of human civilization just to stop Russia from invading a country next door, THEN you can tell all America how your way is best.

    Fortunately, none of our presidents - even Reagan, even Dubya himself - have been that idiotic.

    I could respond to all these but no sense, but I will comment on the Civil War, as you know was because of southern liberals did not want to give up their slaves. Yes liberals enslaving black people.
    And you are once more showing your complete ignorance of the South. The Deep South has always been strongly conservative. YES, it was once the Democratic "Solid South", but that was back in the days before polarization of the parties, when there were conservatives and liberals in BOTH parties. If you would read your American history, you'd find that until not long before WWI, the Democrats were generally much more conservative than the Republicans.

    I've already discussed how my family knew U.S. senator John O. Eastland, how my grandmother sold moonshine for him. He was a Democrat...and he was a very, very strong CONSERVATIVE.

    What changed? Read up on Nixon's "Southern Strategy", and unlearn the BS you've been spoon-fed by Faux News and noted chickenhawk Rush Limbaugh.

    Your a Navy man so you say, yet your comrades died at Pearl Harbor banging on the hulls of their ships trying to escape with no way out. And you blame it on lack of diplomacy. Navy man my ass.
    AND YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T READ MY POST. If you did, you would have seen the following line: "Note that there are wars where I do NOT blame our lack of diplomacy, like WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and of course the Civil War." Our involvement in WWII was NOT mostly due to a lack of diplomacy - I never said it was. To be sure, in the years leading up to the war, FDR did commit the diplomatic sin of cutting off Japan's access to oil without giving them what would have been (in Japanese eyes) viable options - he didn't "give the enemy a golden parachute", a way out that would have allowed them to save face. But this by itself does not by any means excuse what Japan did - Pearl Harbor was NOT the result of failed diplomacy, and I NEVER said it was. That's only YOUR freaking fantasy, guy.

    So when you learn your history, and when you learn to respect those who have worn the uniform to protect YOUR ass, come back and talk to me. Until then, I hold you in the same contempt as I do those who spat on the veterans returning from Vietnam.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  2. #522
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The Shia are cheap and useful laborers in Saudi eyes, nothing more. The Saudis' favorite Israeli? Benjamin Netanyahu.
    Your first sentence is largely true - but does not detract from the fact that the Saudi government has a duty and an earnest desire to prevent unrest and domestic terrorism.

    The rest of your post is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Netanyahu is a complete freaking idiot: "Vote for me 'cause the A-rabs are a-votin' for the other side!!!!" He would have fit in just fine with the good-ole-boy system Down South.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #523
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Please look again at my link. The British decided for war two days before the Germans invaded Belgium.
    Y'know, I think your posts as compared to mine are a wonderful example of how two rational people can look at the same thing and give completely opposite interpretations of what they see. There's obviously cognitive dissonance - and of course each of us think that cognitive dissonance is on the part of the other guy.

    I say this because I see in your post how the decision almost "wrecked the cabinet", and how MP's resigned in protest. I see that war was not declared until AFTER Germany began the invasion...and of course Belgium had known for at least a few days that an invasion was imminent, and would have informed their allies - which included England.

    England gave the ultimatum to Germany because England was bound by treaty to defend Belgium...and even then, until Belgium was actually invaded, England did not declare war, but was using every tool they had (in the very short time they had available from when they first received the news about what Germany was about to do) to try to avoid war, to try to keep the invasion from happening. But - and this is especially true in the days of crude electronic communication such as the telegraph - they only had a few days to prevent the invasion. What were their options? How could they have prevented Germany's invasion by anything other than, "Don't do it, or we're going to war with you"?

    What I see there is a nation that was demonstrably reluctant to go to war until they saw Belgium being invaded.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #524
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Your first sentence is largely true - but does not detract from the fact that the Saudi government has a duty and an earnest desire to prevent unrest and domestic terrorism.

    The rest of your post is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Netanyahu is a complete freaking idiot: "Vote for me 'cause the A-rabs are a-votin' for the other side!!!!" He would have fit in just fine with the good-ole-boy system Down South.
    Saudi admiration for Netanyahu is not as you imagine. They admire his firmness toward Iran, and wish others shared it. They do not care at all about his toughness toward the Palestinians, whom the Saudis regard as troublemakers.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #525
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Saudi admiration for Netanyahu is not as you imagine. They admire his firmness toward Iran, and wish others shared it. They do not care at all about his toughness toward the Palestinians, whom the Saudis regard as troublemakers.
    I would say the Saudis like him because his utter lack of diplomatic common sense is hurting Israel's reputation around the world...and people like him are very easy to manipulate. All one has to do is show the proverbial shiny object - "Look, there's Hamas terrorists who are trying to destroy the Knesset!" (or some such idiocy) - for him to focus on, and he'll miss what they want him to miss.

    The guy's an idiot. He and Tom Cotton should take DNA tests to see just how closely they're related.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  6. #526
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Y'know, I think your posts as compared to mine are a wonderful example of how two rational people can look at the same thing and give completely opposite interpretations of what they see. There's obviously cognitive dissonance - and of course each of us think that cognitive dissonance is on the part of the other guy.

    I say this because I see in your post how the decision almost "wrecked the cabinet", and how MP's resigned in protest. I see that war was not declared until AFTER Germany began the invasion...and of course Belgium had known for at least a few days that an invasion was imminent, and would have informed their allies - which included England.

    England gave the ultimatum to Germany because England was bound by treaty to defend Belgium...and even then, until Belgium was actually invaded, England did not declare war, but was using every tool they had (in the very short time they had available from when they first received the news about what Germany was about to do) to try to avoid war, to try to keep the invasion from happening. But - and this is especially true in the days of crude electronic communication such as the telegraph - they only had a few days to prevent the invasion. What were their options? How could they have prevented Germany's invasion by anything other than, "Don't do it, or we're going to war with you"?

    What I see there is a nation that was demonstrably reluctant to go to war until they saw Belgium being invaded.
    I appreciate the thought, but the British peace option was an illusion. Asquith and Grey (and Churchill) had already decided for war, and they knew that if their cabinet split (and fell) then they would be succeeded by a firmly pro-war Conservative government. By 1914 isolation was no longer British policy.
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  7. #527
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    I could respond to all these but no sense, but I will comment on the Civil War, as you know was because of southern liberals did not want to give up their slaves. Yes liberals enslaving black people.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  8. #528
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And of course, instead of even attempting to give diplomacy a chance, you want to go to war, go directly to war, do not pass "Go".
    Peace through strength, something you liberals have no clue. War is always the last option and it is always on the table. Not so with you liberals.
    When you're the president, and you're the one who has to decide to get involved militarily and risk escalation to a general thermonuclear exchange which would destroy America and most of human civilization just to stop Russia from invading a country next door, THEN you can tell all America how your way is best.

    Fortunately, none of our presidents - even Reagan, even Dubya himself - have been that idiotic.
    Once again Obama's diplomacy is not working. Yet you are so naive to think diplomacy is the cure all to all conflicts. Go try diplomacy on ISIS and see how far you get before they burn you alive or cut your head off.

    AND YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T READ MY POST. If you did, you would have seen the following line: "Note that there are wars where I do NOT blame our lack of diplomacy, like WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and of course the Civil War." Our involvement in WWII was NOT mostly due to a lack of diplomacy - I never said it was. To be sure, in the years leading up to the war, FDR did commit the diplomatic sin of cutting off Japan's access to oil without giving them what would have been (in Japanese eyes) viable options - he didn't "give the enemy a golden parachute", a way out that would have allowed them to save face. But this by itself does not by any means excuse what Japan did - Pearl Harbor was NOT the result of failed diplomacy, and I NEVER said it was. That's only YOUR freaking fantasy, guy.

    So when you learn your history, and when you learn to respect those who have worn the uniform to protect YOUR ass, come back and talk to me. Until then, I hold you in the same contempt as I do those who spat on the veterans returning from Vietnam.
    First you say diplomacy is the only way to solve a conflict and in the same breath you state conservatives only want to bomb first, then in bold you don't blame diplomacy for not working. But hey your as naive a person as I've came across, for you to say you would tell Iran they can have all the nuks it wants and therefore they will not want nuks. All because you told them they could have them. I role my eyes on that one. Navy man my ass.
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  9. #529
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    How many nations has Iran attacked in the past decade? None? How many have we attacked? Two? Three? I'd say the only rogue nation around is the United States, doesn't that mean Iran ought to have the right to protect themselves against us?
    Who are "we"?

    Iran funds terrorist groups, making them acessories to any attack those terrorist groups carry out. Even if they did not, there is still the matter of the human rights violations of the Iranian regime against it's own population as well as the issuing of threats towards other nations. Particularly threats of genocide must be taken seriously when made by states that are attepting to aquire weapons of mass destruction.

    When combined these factors demonstrate a blatant disregard for the manner in which the community of sovereign nations establish and maintain civilized relations, making Iran what is commonly known as a bandit state.
    Therefore the unspoken rules that govern conduct between civilized states do not fully apply to them. Only those rules that are legally mandatory need be upheld.
    Ok, that does it! I waste Professor Plum with the lead pipe.
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  10. #530
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    That other nations think highly enough of another( to allow the N-bomb) is quite the compliment ..Does Iran deserve this responsibility ? IMO, they do, and most all nations do have the right..BUT , its very easily said that NO Islamic nation has matured enough to merit any WMD ... Is Iran the exception ?? I , of course, have never been there, all I know and hear is the crap from conservatives and liberals ..I strongly do NOT believe the propaganda from the conservatives ..

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