View Poll Results: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

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  • Yes

    108 49.77%
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    70 32.26%
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    26 11.98%
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    13 5.99%
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Thread: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

  1. #511
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but among historians it has become the definitive view. And the point is that the bombs were necessary to preclude evil.
    No it hasn't. Again, I've more than a select few. Yes, winners write the history, but there are dissenting views. It is debatable. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #512
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Um, this may come as a shock to you, but we don't rule Iran. That, and this might even be heretical to you, but most Iranians are just as patriotic about Iran as we are about America. Which means, if you tell them what not to do, then that's precisely what they WILL do.
    Typical liberal response. So you tell Iran to build all the nuks they want so in your mind they will not. That is the most naive comment I've ever heard.


    This is called "diplomacy"...and is to some extent what we've been doing to Russia. Diplomacy, properly conducted, consists of both carrot and stick. Thing is, what you're proposing is all stick: "Do what we say or else". Anyone with any experience in military leadership will tell you that when it comes to getting people to do what you want them to do, "all stick" might work for days or weeks, but it NEVER works in the long run.
    Diplomacy my ass. Obama telling Putin to not invade Ukraine, christ Putin tells Obama to jump and how high.

    Guy, your problem is the same that so many conservatives (and not a few chickenhawks like Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh) have: your only tool is a hammer, so all the problems look like nails to you. You've forgotten that in the wars that we've gotten into because of a failure of diplomacy was usually because it was warmongering idiots who were conducting that diplomacy (i.e. Vietnam, Spanish-American War, the invasion of Iraq, the War of 1812). Note that there are wars where I do NOT blame our lack of diplomacy, like WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and of course the Civil War.
    I could respond to all these but no sense, but I will comment on the Civil War, as you know was because of southern liberals did not want to give up their slaves. Yes liberals enslaving black people.

    I'm retired Navy - and like most retired enlisted, the thing I miss most is guiding the junior enlisted. Most of my friends are retired or active duty. My oldest son was in NJROTC, and my youngest son is seeing the Navy recruiter with his friends this very day. So you go take your I-hate-all-liberals-'cause-FREEDOM crap and shove it where it richly deserves to be.
    Your a Navy man so you say, yet your comrades died at Pearl Harbor banging on the hulls of their ships trying to escape with no way out. And you blame it on lack of diplomacy. Navy man my ass.
    Last edited by Born Free; 03-18-15 at 02:08 PM.
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  3. #513
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    You don't even know what a liberal is, never mind how one thinks. You're just flinging feces at shadows- all you're going to do is end up with **** on your hands.
    All I have to do is look at idiot Obama.
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  4. #514
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    All I have to do is look at idiot Obama.
    What I've read here, you probably wouldn't recognize him, either. You don't seem to pick up on much, even when it's laid out in front of you.
    "How do I know what I think 'till I hear what I say?"
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No it hasn't. Again, I've more than a select few. Yes, winners write the history, but there are dissenting views. It is debatable. Sorry.
    Please cite a review or journal article that challenges Giangreco's account.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Again, the Saudis don't care. They consider it an act of charity to allow the Shia to remain.
    Yes, they do consider it an act of charity (as required by the Qur'an) for the Shi'a to remain...but no rational government (including that of the Saudis) wants to do that which would incite unrest and domestic terrorism. If that were not so, then the Saudis would have gotten rid of the Shi'a a long time ago.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yes, they do consider it an act of charity (as required by the Qur'an) for the Shi'a to remain...but no rational government (including that of the Saudis) wants to do that which would incite unrest and domestic terrorism. If that were not so, then the Saudis would have gotten rid of the Shi'a a long time ago.
    The Shia are cheap and useful laborers in Saudi eyes, nothing more. The Saudis' favorite Israeli? Benjamin Netanyahu.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #518
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The Archives of any country present the official line. "Britain" may not have been committed to France, but the Grey cabinet was.
    And that was my point - the English were not eager to go to war to defend France...but all that changed once completely-neutral Belgium was invaded. When that happened, popular opinion in Britain swung strongly towards supporting going to war against Germany.

    And that's the lesson we need to remember when we start talking about bombing Iran - when we do that which pisses off the other people in the geographical region, bad things can happen.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #519
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And that was my point - the English were not eager to go to war to defend France...but all that changed once completely-neutral Belgium was invaded. When that happened, popular opinion in Britain swung strongly towards supporting going to war against Germany.

    And that's the lesson we need to remember when we start talking about bombing Iran - when we do that which pisses off the other people in the geographical region, bad things can happen.
    Please look again at my link. The British decided for war two days before the Germans invaded Belgium.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #520
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    And it wouldn't get past a geiger counter within 10 miles.
    It wouldn't need to.

    A shielded nuclear warhead isn't that easy to detect. Even if you knew what to look for, where it might be, and when the ship was arriving, it's by no means a given that one would be able to detect that warhead even if one were standing 20 feet from it. And even if you did somehow detect it ten miles away (which is a fantasy, btw), how the heck are you going to stop that ship if the captain decides to go full steam ahead to detonate the warhead close to the NYC waterfront?

    But back to your detection fantasy, those who serve on board nuclear-powered carriers in the Navy normally receive more radiation from the fluorescent lighting than from the two nuclear reactors...and those reactors hold a heck of a lot more radioactive material than any nuclear warhead.

    And that's why I'm one of the very few political progressives who is enthusiastic about nuclear power (civilian and military) - nuclear reactors are (in the long run) greener than anything short of true renewable energy...and it's safer than most people think. I remember studying the design of the reactors on the Lincoln, at all the safeguards they had, and I remember thinking to myself that in order to cause a meltdown, the entire watch team would have to get together to try to cause it...and even then they might not succeed.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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