View Poll Results: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

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  • Yes

    108 49.77%
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    70 32.26%
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    26 11.98%
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Thread: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

  1. #491
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    This is all pretty much the standard far-left propaganda which is regularly repeated by gullible liberal pawns that accept it as reality!
    I'm one of those liberals who likes nuclear power (which is very green indeed) - and nuclear weapons (since they've saved us from having another world war).

    And I suggest you start reading up on your history so you can learn that NO, sovereign nations generally do NOT bow down and obey overwhelmingly powerful nations even when threatened with utter destruction. Just ask Belgium, when they were threatened in 1914 with being overrun by the German Army, which was at the time the most powerful army ever to march the face of the earth. The Belgians said NO, they wouldn't just let the Germans march in...and their stubborn resistance threw the Germany timetable completely out of whack, and gave the French (and the Brits) just time enough to dig in.

    Given that Iran will NOT give in to intimidation even when threatened by air strikes without end (and will instead redouble their efforts to build the Bomb), the SENSIBLE solution would be to realize that the trick is to show the Iranians how they can make more money and be more prosperous without nuclear weapons, while at the same time preserving their national security (especially since SHI'A Iran is Right Next Door to nuclear-armed SUNNI Pakistan).
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  2. #492
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    A number of countries fly with us against ISIS: Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates. The Israelis do not because their participation would make it difficult for the others.
    ISIS is not Iran. Comparing the two would be like comparing the Basque separatists to Spain - one is seen by most of the world as a unusually large gang of thugs, while the other is an organized nation that stands on its own.

    And it took a while to think of even a somewhat reasonable comparison - it wasn't easy...and of course the Basque separatists never truly held their own territory as ISIS does (for now). But the world gives ISIS the same (if not less) legitimacy as it did the Basque separtists (which wasn't much at all).
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #493
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    ISIS is not Iran. Comparing the two would be like comparing the Basque separatists to Spain - one is seen by most of the world as a unusually large gang of thugs, while the other is an organized nation that stands on its own.

    And it took a while to think of even a somewhat reasonable comparison - it wasn't easy...and of course the Basque separatists never truly held their own territory as ISIS does (for now). But the world gives ISIS the same (if not less) legitimacy as it did the Basque separtists (which wasn't much at all).
    I did not compare them. I answered a post that specifically referenced ISIS.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #494
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Too many chances for the secret to leak.
    Chances, yes, but those are only chances. Remember, the Manhattan Project, as vast an operation as it was, was kept a secret from most of the world (except from Stalin, ironically enough).
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #495
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    They will simply send the Shia away if need be. They are much more ready for war than you imagine.
    Gotta watch those assumptions. "Sending the Shi'a away" would be seen as 'ethnic cleansing' by the world, and even the Sauds don't want the kind of backlash that would surely bring.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  6. #496
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The Entente Cordiale (with France) in 1904 and a parallel agreement with Russia in 1907 left no doubt. Any ambiguity was just for diplomatic nicety. This puts it well.

    Britain’s choice for war came before the disaster in Belgium. The choice for war, if war erupted, was made on Sunday 2 August, when the Cabinet authorized Grey to pledge naval assistance to France – two days before the invasion of Belgium. This pledge almost wrecked the Cabinet. So appalled were neutralist ministers at their own government’s haste that four resigned on 2-3 August (Burns, Simon, Morley and Beauchamp). Nowhere else did this happen in Europe. The German invasion of Belgium was unleashed on the morning of Tuesday 4 August. Britain declared war upon Germany later that evening, the very instant her short ultimatum expired. London waited least. In this sense, the German invasion was the occasion of Britain’s intervention – but not the cause. It arrived as a gift from Mars for British politicians and propagandists. It provided political cover for a prior commitment to war. It squeezed Russia, and the invasion of Eastern Europe, out of the national consciousness and made war much easier to sell to the British public.
    The fact that there WAS an ultimatum, that the pledge "almost wrecked the Cabinet", that MP's resigned in protest are all clear indicators of the fact that England was NOT eager to go to war, that there many who didn't want England involved in a continental war at all.

    And again, the reference I used was from England's own National Archives. It's pretty hard to ignore that.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #497
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I did not compare them. I answered a post that specifically referenced ISIS.
    My apologies - I thought yours was a response to one of my posts - got it mixed up.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #498
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    War compels cruel choices.
    War is cruel and avoidable.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #499
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Gotta watch those assumptions. "Sending the Shi'a away" would be seen as 'ethnic cleansing' by the world, and even the Sauds don't want the kind of backlash that would surely bring.
    Again, the Saudis don't care. They consider it an act of charity to allow the Shia to remain.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The fact that there WAS an ultimatum, that the pledge "almost wrecked the Cabinet", that MP's resigned in protest are all clear indicators of the fact that England was NOT eager to go to war, that there many who didn't want England involved in a continental war at all.

    And again, the reference I used was from England's own National Archives. It's pretty hard to ignore that.
    The Archives of any country present the official line. "Britain" may not have been committed to France, but the Grey cabinet was.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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