View Poll Results: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

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  • Yes

    108 49.77%
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    70 32.26%
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    26 11.98%
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Thread: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

  1. #421
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Cephus.

    Thankfully this does not apply to us, because our Constitution and Bill of Rights take precedence - so far.
    This is true. The belligerent that can, needn't concern itself with IL, or the UN if it decides that it's "interests" (nebulous as that is) supersede the former, and if it has the military, economic and political will, it can dismiss both.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #422
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Does Israel really need them to start?
    Yes. In order to be legitimately accused of building nuclear weapons, they must be building nuclear weapons. If you buy into the late argument of pre-emptive war because somebody may do something someday, you have a precarious perch.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #423
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Does Israel really need them to start?
    No. If you are armed, and a person who has threatened to kill you walks out in front of you, loading shells into his shotgun, you don't wait until he has leveled it at your chest to shoot him.

  4. #424
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Do they not protect us from having others tell us how to run our Country? I always thought they did.
    Hi Polgara. No, that's fantastic, and your "like" surprises me. Our constitution and our bill of rights does not insulate us from external forces. The BOR you should know is designed to protect American citizens civil liberties, and pointedly from our own government. And, a persons "rights", or a groups, or a states or a countries rights are whatever they can force. That's it, nothing more. Something or someone will always be challenging them. Even on the heels of our countries founding, several framers, for sometime to come, reiterated that you have what's been delivered to you so long as you can hold on to it. And, without due diligence, perseverance, and in the words of at least one, an occasional revolution, you won't retain them. Other countries don't give a damn about the American constitution, or the people's Bill,of Rights, if they perceive it to conflict with their own.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #425
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    In the abstract and absolute sense I'll concede your point. But those conditions rarely apply. In the real world the value of a combatant's cause and the outcome of the war are the primary determinants of what is classed as an atrocity.
    They always apply. Not have the moral core to abide by your moral convictions is not the same as them not applying. And no, the outcome of a war is not dependent on committing atrocities. We did not have to bomb Dresden to win, we did not have to drop two nukes to win, we did not have to torture to win, it's a false premise that because something happened that we had no choice but to do it. There are choices.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #426
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    This is true. The belligerent that can, needn't concern itself with IL, or the UN if it decides that it's "interests" (nebulous as that is) supersede the former, and if it has the military, economic and political will, it can dismiss both.
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    I remember reading a long time ago that someone was discussing this very subject, and they simply asked "would you want a doctor from Bangledesh making the rules about health care for the entire world, including the US, just because someone at the UN gave him the authority to do so?" That scared the **** out of me at the time, and it still does! The "one-world government" people are only interested in power, IMO, and don't give a fig about the billions of people who would be affected by their decisions. We're not perfect, but we're still among the best the world has to offer. Just saying...

  7. #427
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    I remember reading a long time ago that someone was discussing this very subject, and they simply asked "would you want a doctor from Bangledesh making the rules about health care for the entire world, including the US, just because someone at the UN gave him the authority to do so?" That scared the **** out of me at the time, and it still does! The "one-world government" people are only interested in power, IMO, and don't give a fig about the billions of people who would be affected by their decisions. We're not perfect, but we're still among the best the world has to offer. Just saying...
    Which means that if we deem it to be in our interest, we'll tell the UN and International law to take a hike because "we're among the best the world has to offer"! That can only be done though if one has the power to do so. We're right back to might makes right, even though, it doesn't!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And you think the US cares why?
    Because we believe in rule of law, and a rational debate.

  9. #429
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Which means that if we deem it to be in our interest, we'll tell the UN and International law to take a hike because "we're among the best the world has to offer"! That can only be done though if one has the power to do so. We're right back to might makes right, even though, it doesn't!
    Well, we only get one vote at the UN, same as the others, but we do provide much of their funding, and money does talk. Does International law over-ride our law? Maybe sometimes on treaties and such, but how is it that terrorist groups can commit the atrocities they are currently doing? They don't respect the law, and they laugh about it. China and Russia seem to be ganging up on us, and they are powerful too. What is the solution, Monte?

  10. #430
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Well, we only get one vote at the UN, same as the others, but we do provide much of their funding, and money does talk. Does International law over-ride our law? Maybe sometimes on treaties and such, but how is it that terrorist groups can commit the atrocities they are currently doing? They don't respect the law, and they laugh about it. China and Russia seem to be ganging up on us, and they are powerful too. What is the solution, Monte?
    If as an example, disproportionate killing of civilians (say, such as the US Predator Drone Program does) is a violation of international law. Do you think US law should supersede that. And if US law and constitution nullifies international law when they conflict, then why couldn't other nations claim the same. Why couldn't Hussein tell the UN to take a hike, that they're resolve conflicts with Iraqi law? Simply because they hadn't the economic and military strength to oppose those countries which would enforce the resolutions. IOW, international law has to be followed, or it doesn't. The US can deny the authority of the ICC. Who's going force the US in front of that judicial body??
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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