View Poll Results: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

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  • Yes

    108 49.77%
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    70 32.26%
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Thread: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?[W:296, 650]

  1. #31
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Sarcasm?
    Just a bit. Sometimes it takes a life of its own.

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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    As a sovereign country, yes, they have the same right to defend themselves as any other country. HOWEVER, they signed a treaty which said they wouldnt pursue them, so until they revoke it, they dont.

  3. #33
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    From a Realist perspective, they have the "right" to whatever they can get away with.

    We, in turn, have the "right" to impede them in such pursuits if it goes against our own interests.

    At the end of the day, it's really as simple as that. Iran has an agenda, and we have an agenda. Unfortunately, those agendas simply happen to be mutually incompatible.

    May the best nation win.
    Thats not true though, we dont have a right to infringe on others freedoms. We even signed a international treaty which said we wouldnt. We have a right to defend ourselves, but its a stretch to claim that keeping others from being strong is defensive.

  4. #34
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I heard someone make the argument that Obama doesn't believe the US has any rightful role in preventing or hindering Iran from developing and maintaining nuclear weapons. I don't know that that's true, and nobody but the President can answer to what he believes, so I'll ask what you believe. If Iran has the ability, does it have the "right" to nuclear weapons? (By "right", I mean the U.S. and other nations would not be unjustified in trying to prevent it.)

    working on the poll
    Persia is one of the oldest civilizations, deserving of respect. The neighborhood is full of nukes: India, Pakistan, Israel, Russia, China. It is hard to make the case that Iran does not have at least as much right to nuclear weapons as those other states. It is, however, easy to make the case that an Iran with nuclear weapons would make the world a more dangerous place.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #35
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Thats not true though, we dont have a right to infringe on others freedoms. We even signed a international treaty which said we wouldnt. We have a right to defend ourselves, but its a stretch to claim that keeping others from being strong is defensive.
    "Stop quoting law, we carry swords!" - Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus

    Laws aren't worth the paper they're printed on if no one is going to enforce them. Guess what? Where the affairs of powerful nation states are concerned, no one does.

    Frankly, I'd argue that any law which upholds the ability of nations like Iran or North Korea to produce weapons of mass destruction is flawed, and therefore should be ignored or worked around in any way possible.

  6. #36
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Well crap, man. And I was totally anticipating this poll being dispositive of the issue and appropriately globally recognized as such.
    In that case we should just ask Obama, leader of the free (and not so free) world.

    As far as I can tell, that makes the answer a firm "he'd rather not have that happen during his term as POTUS".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #37
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    There's no doubt that the Pakistani nuclear program is a dangerous thing, and that the fear that any nuclear weapon they may hold might fall to the wrong hands is a rational and logical one - but in the case of Iran there isn't even the fear that it might fall to the wrong hands as it already will be in the wrong hands.

    There is not much difference between the Iranian government, which is really the largest representative of radical Shiite Islam, and organizations such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda etc. The Iranian government including the revolutionary guard and the Mullahs are a branch of radical Islam and are just as dangerous as any of these organizations (and by the way Hezbollah is practically the Iranian government).

    I see no logic at all in the words of those who are claiming that perhaps due to the fact that the Ayatollah and the rest are leading a nation they are somehow more rational or logical than these radical Islamic organizations. It doesn't make them more rational, it doesn't make them more logical, they are just as much as nutjobs as every other Islamic terrorist out there and letting them hold nuclear weapons will probably be the greatest mistake of modern age.
    I can pretty agree with your perspective. In these modern days of Internet, it's not hard to spot psychopaths a half of world away. How many decades have passed in which various Iranian figure-heads say that the sacrifice of the entire population of Iran would be worth taking out Israel alone. Well, I think maybe on some occasions these maniacal martinets throw in..."Israel along with the US."

    I think it's naive for any person with the capacity to follow current events to "genuinely believe" that Iranians will forego what's apparently been an aggressive pursuit of building a formidable program until they get the blessings of the president and/or the congress. As you implied, they may already possess a higher degree of technology and even material.

    North Korea at times would pretend that they hadn't advanced their efforts to have nukes. But then their psychosis would take over and jam it down the West's throats that they were nuke ready and armageddon was just around the corner.

    If Obama, the military and members of Congress aren't pondering the possibility that the stage of Iran's program is advanced, then what verifiable intelligences would be available to them, which would alleviate their need to ponder - and choose to engage in some type of agreement? Obviously by the Republican's recent reaction with the open letter to Iran, I'm guessing that they aren't getting such intelligence.

    But as the old saying goes, "A bird in hand is worth two in a bush." There's no second guessing about Pakistan's possession of numbers of nukes, which I don't think they've managed to keep an accurate accounting of. It's been said that not even Russia has an accurate inventory. That's freaky, in and of itself.
    Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submissively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us? - William O. Douglas


  8. #38
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    There's no doubt that the Pakistani nuclear program is a dangerous thing, and that the fear that any nuclear weapon they may hold might fall to the wrong hands is a rational and logical one - but in the case of Iran there isn't even the fear that it might fall to the wrong hands as it already will be in the wrong hands.

    There is not much difference between the Iranian government, which is really the largest representative of radical Shiite Islam, and organizations such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda etc. The Iranian government including the revolutionary guard and the Mullahs are a branch of radical Islam and are just as dangerous as any of these organizations (and by the way Hezbollah is practically the Iranian government).

    I see no logic at all in the words of those who are claiming that perhaps due to the fact that the Ayatollah and the rest are leading a nation they are somehow more rational or logical than these radical Islamic organizations. It doesn't make them more rational, it doesn't make them more logical, they are just as much as nutjobs as every other Islamic terrorist out there and letting them hold nuclear weapons will probably be the greatest mistake of modern age.
    You realize bin laden was hiding out in the heart of the pakistan military district...just sayin

    Reason i'm not worried is they are deterred by the same reality of MAD as every other nuclear regime since the cold war. Any statements to the contrary are most likely meant to appease the hard liners within and to convince the population the regime is needed. I don't see why the ayatollah is more of a suicidal war hawk than putin

  9. #39
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I heard someone make the argument that Obama doesn't believe the US has any rightful role in preventing or hindering Iran from developing and maintaining nuclear weapons. I don't know that that's true, and nobody but the President can answer to what he believes, so I'll ask what you believe. If Iran has the ability, does it have the "right" to nuclear weapons? (By "right", I mean the U.S. and other nations would not be unjustified in trying to prevent it.)

    working on the poll
    Your opponents arguments haven't really been that nations have a "right" to nuclear arms, it's been that it's insanely hypocritical for us to try to enforce massive sanctions and even threaten war over something we have and refuse to give up. It's not really surprising why Iran feels the need for nuclear weapons. We have them completely surrounded by dozens of bases and actively threaten them.

    This isn't about world peace, it's about America trying to ensure its dominance. We have more nukes than every other country combined, minus Russia, and we're the only nation on earth to use them against human beings. Where is our moral high ground?
    "If I take death into my life, acknowledge it, and face it squarely, I will free myself from the anxiety of death and the pettiness of life - and only then will I be free to become myself." ~ Martin Heidegger

  10. #40
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    Re: Does Iran have a "Right" to Nuclear Weapons?

    If Iran does get nukes I believe it will help stabilize the Middle east. No nation would attack another when both have nukes. MAD worked for us and the USSR and it should work for foes like Isreal and Iran.

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