View Poll Results: Did the GOP commit a Treason acted, against Obama and the Country ?

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    203 78.08%
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    49 18.85%
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Thread: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

  1. #221
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    1. There's by no means a slam dunk case this violates the logan act

    2. The logan act isn't treason.

    Care to actually provide some kind of meaningful and worth while original content? Or just want to mindlessly link wikipedia posts that don't relate to what was asked in the thread topic or in the quote you stated?

  2. #222
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Precisely what I was going to say. If it was such a bold maneuver that was really speaking for the American people against the tyranny of Obummer, then why are so many GOPers walking it back?

    GOP’s “Iran letter” excuse: We were just being “cheeky” - Salon.com
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

  3. #223
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    By using the format of an open letter, they have not directly contacted any Iranian officials, and have side-stepped prosecution via the Logan Act, and have protection from the First Amendment. Nor have they interfered with negotiations by formatting the letter as a clarification of a legal procedure, rather than a recommendation to the Iranian government.
    That may be, but the letter does more than inform the Iranian Government (and the Iranian people) of how U.S. process government works - that "legal procedure" you refer to above. It essentially warns Iran that any agreement stuck between two world leaders, specifically Pres. Obama (US) and the Ayatollah (Iran), can be revoked or changed if and when a new President or Senate (majority) comes to power and don't like the original deal that was made. Pay close attention to how the wording in bold:

    First, under our Constitution, while the president negotiates international agreements, Congress plays the significant role of ratifying them. In the case of a treaty, the Senate must ratify it by a two-thirds vote. A so-called congressional-executive agreement requires a majority vote in both the House and the Senate (which, because of procedural rules, effectively means a three-fifths vote in the Senate). Anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement.

    Second, the offices of our Constitution have different characteristics. For example, the president may serve only two 4-year terms, whereas senators may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms. As applied today, for instance, President Obama will leave office in January 2017, while most of us will remain in office well beyond then—perhaps decades.

    What these two constitutional provisions mean is that we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei. The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time.

    We hope this letter enriches your knowledge of our constitutional system and promotes mutual understanding and clarity as nuclear negotiations progress.
    These 47 Republican Senators were 100% correct on procedures for ratifying a treaty or executive agreement as presented by the POTUS, but they made it clear that any deal they didn't like would be thrown out. Notice also how they point out that Senators can serve for a longer period than the POTUS..."perhaps decades".

    They have not overtly interfered, contacted a foreign representative, or done anything that can be seen as interference in Obama's nuclear negotiations. Whatever your opinion, they have crafted the letter superbly to avoid any legal allegations of wrongdoing.
    I'll grant you that. Most people won't see anything illegal about the letter. However, the problem stems in their cleverly crafted warning meant to "steer" negotiations in the direction they (hardline Republicans) want. This effectively undermines the President's attempt to negotiate in good faith the best deal possible for all concerned. So far, it would appear that Iran is complying with the original framework of a nuclear weapons/enrichment reduction deal as initially established in Nov 2013 as outlined in this report by the Congressional Research Service dated 02/02/2015. From page 5 of the report:

    In its' reports n 2014 and in January 2015, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has confirmed that Iran has complied with the terms of the Joint Plan of Action (JPA).
    The JPA essentially states that "Iran agreed to refrain from 'any further advances of its activies' at the Natanz commercial-scale facility, Fordow facility and Arak reactor" which are the three nuclear facilities capable of either enriching uranium 235, producing heavy-water or converting low-enriched uranium (LEU) to weapons-grade highly enriched uranium (HEU). (Page 3-5 refers)

    They probably believe opposition to Obama on general principal is in the best interest of their constituents.
    What they really believe is that they can bully Iran to do what they want them to do - to totally dismantle their nuclear enrichment program - PERIOD.

    I can get behind safeguards as outlined in the CSS report provided that inspections are broadened to include nuclear facilities Iran would construct in the future. It's the only area where the door remains open for Iran to covertly move along the path to reconstituting their nuclear weapons ambitions in the future. Otherwise, I think the initial framework for a comprehensive deal is in place.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 03-12-15 at 12:28 PM.
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  4. #224
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by oncewas View Post
    Things are being done in the House and Senate that's never been done before now. Should the Senators that sent the letter to Iran, be punished for this acted against Obama, and the country?
    I don't know if it was treason or not. Only, I do know that it does seem they can no longer can help themselves, almost as if they are infirm and require nursing. The party for which I belonged for over 30 years has filled with an inbreeding that has produced imbecils.

    Did the GOP  Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?-zetagopclowns-jpg

  5. #225
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    I don't know if it was treason or not. Only, I do know that it does seem they can no longer can help themselves, almost as if they are infirm and require nursing. The party for which I belonged for over 30 years has filled with an inbreeding that has produced imbecils.
    While it's standard liberal/progressive/socialist/Democratic tactics, it's pretty pathetic when all you can bring to the table are insults and ridicule.
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  6. #226
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    1. There's by no means a slam dunk case this violates the logan act

    2. The logan act isn't treason.

    Care to actually provide some kind of meaningful and worth while original content? Or just want to mindlessly link wikipedia posts that don't relate to what was asked in the thread topic or in the quote you stated?
    It's nice to see a conservative agree that there is a case that this violated the Logan act. It's certainly not an air tight case, and I can't imagine any prosecutions ever taking place. But if one did and this went to the SCOTUS, the outcome is far from certain.

    Way too many people take an Us vs Them mentality, refusing to see any wrongs by their side and any rights by the other. Liberals calling this treason: totally unhelpful. Treason should be taken off the table. This may be terrible judgement, it's certainly irresponsible, and may be slightly criminal, but it is not treason.

  7. #227
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    It's nice to see a conservative agree that there is a case that this violated the Logan act. It's certainly not an air tight case, and I can't imagine any prosecutions ever taking place. But if one did and this went to the SCOTUS, the outcome is far from certain.

    Way too many people take an Us vs Them mentality, refusing to see any wrongs by their side and any rights by the other. Liberals calling this treason: totally unhelpful. Treason should be taken off the table. This may be terrible judgement, it's certainly irresponsible, and may be slightly criminal, but it is not treason.
    it's neither treason , nor a violation of the Logan act.... there's really nothing more that need be said on the matter.

    the case for it being a Logan act violation hinges entirely on whether the person is an authorized agent of the United States or not.... as US Senators acting in accordance with their legislative duties are, by definition, authorized agents of the United States, the law is inapplicable.
    there is no case, period... end of story.

  8. #228
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by oncewas View Post
    Things are being done in the House and Senate that's never been done before now. Should the Senators that sent the letter to Iran, be punished for this acted against Obama, and the country?
    This kind of stuff has been done before.

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