View Poll Results: Did the GOP commit a Treason acted, against Obama and the Country ?

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    203 78.08%
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    49 18.85%
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Thread: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

  1. #181
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    The fact that Dems are saying this, using the word Treason after all Obama and his merry band of scumbags have done, is laughable to the point of being absurd.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

  2. #182
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So think they broke a law, but haven't a clue what law that might be.
    I've never really had an issue with you before, but this kind of stuff is beneath a moderator. Obviously we're talking about the Logan Act. Obviously you know this.

    Shrug, have a good day.

  3. #183
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I've never really had an issue with you before, but this kind of stuff is beneath a moderator. Obviously we're talking about the Logan Act. Obviously you know this.

    Shrug, have a good day.
    What does the Logan Act have to do with immigration reform?










  4. #184
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I've never really had an issue with you before, but this kind of stuff is beneath a moderator. Obviously we're talking about the Logan Act. Obviously you know this.

    Shrug, have a good day.
    The Logan Act does not apply to representatives of the government.

  5. #185
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    It's not treason or probably even illegal, it will fuel the American are arrogant stuff and piss a lot of people off though. It comes across as "we think you are idiots, so we'll explain basic facts so you stupid Iranians are better informed! Aren't we so nice?"

  6. #186
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    A valiant attempt at misdirection. Failed but valiant. At issue is whether congress has a place inserting itself into foreign affairs. Clearly there is evidence that they have. In addition, the treaty clause in the constitution states, "[The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur..." Therefore, congress has a rightful place in the negotiations with Iran which Obama has taken on unilaterally.
    Who's misdirecting?

    The Senate has long waited until after negotiations were completed and a bill was presented to them before they got so deeply involved in the treaty ratification process. Whether you or anyone else would characterize the end result of such negotiations as a treaty or an executive agreement, the ratification process is still the same. Furthermore, the Senate would still be afforded the opportunity to weight in on the bill through the normal governing process. That is why I firmly believe these 47 Republican Senators over stepped their bounds here. Yes, the process they laid out in their letter was correct from a constitutional point of view, as far as the separation of power, tenure and nullification process is concerned, but that still does not mean that these Senators get to interfere with ongoing negotiations in an obvious attempt to undermine a sitting President.

    Many of us are so concerned about these ongoing efforts to undermine the negotiations which many of us believe will ultimately get to where we all want to get to, which is an Iran that is divorced from any nuclear ambitions.

    There will be a time and a place for Congress to weigh in. But that time and place is after a deal is agreed upon. Congress will always have the ability to defund that deal, to cancel it out through legislation, but let’s not undermine negotiations, because all of us agree that the better path to stopping Iran from getting a nuclear weapon is a negotiated settlement, rather than a military option, which would be perhaps our only option should these negotiations fail.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/senat...resident-iran/

    Moreover, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, has already called out these 47 Republican Senators for both their attempt to undermine negotiations and in their apparent lack of understanding how international law works.

    The Iranian minister said that "in our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy."

    Saying he hopes to "enrich the knowledge of the authors," Zarif said:

    "I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States, and the conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by US domestic law. The authors may not fully understand that in international law, governments represent the entirety of their respective states, are responsible for the conduct of foreign affairs, are required to fulfill the obligations they undertake with other states and may not invoke their internal law as justification for failure to perform their international obligations."
    Zarif also noted that many previous international agreements the U.S. has been a party to have been "mere executive agreements," and not full treaties that received Senate ratification.
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ighten-authors

    But bringing the matter back down to the domestic, yes, the Senate does have a place in these negotiations. It is "advised" if not directly then indirectly through various Senate Committees, i.e. the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and the Senate Committee on Homeland Security, where each committee is allowed to provide their input. Notwithstanding the roles of each aforementioned Senate Committees, it is not until after negotiations have been hammered out and the framework of such is presented to the full Senate that their "consent" is required and even then the Senate can make changes to the bill via the amendment process before passage.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 03-11-15 at 06:22 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  7. #187
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    I believe its under directive 10-289
    An executive order issued in 2012 by Obama which allows him to do anything he likes with no questioning allowed from anyone? What a dreamer. Why don't we discuss how a dictator operates?

  8. #188
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Who's misdirecting?

    The Senate has long waited until after negotiations were completed and a bill was presented to them before they got so deeply involved in the treaty ratification process. Whether you or anyone else would characterize the end result of such negotiations as a treaty or an executive agreement, the ratification process is still the same. Furthermore, the Senate would still be afforded the opportunity to weight in on the bill through the normal governing process. That is why I firmly believe these 47 Republican Senators over stepped their bounds here. Yes, the process they laid out in their letter was correct from a constitutional point of view, as far as the separation of power, tenure and nullification process is concerned, but that still does not mean that these Senators get to interfere with ongoing negotiations in an obvious attempt to undermine a sitting President.



    Why did senators go around the president on Iran?

    Moreover, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, has already called out these 47 Republican Senators for both their attempt to undermine negotiations and in their apparent lack of understanding how international law works.



    Iran Calls GOP Letter 'Propaganda Ploy,' Offers To 'Enlighten' Authors : The Two-Way : NPR



    But bringing the matter back down to the domestic, yes, the Senate does have a place in these negotiations. It is "advised" if not directly then indirectly through various Senate Committees, i.e. the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and the Senate Committee on Homeland Security, where each committee is allowed to provide their input. Notwithstanding the roles of each aforementioned Senate Committees, it is not until after negotiations have been hammered out and the framework of such is presented to the full Senate that their "consent" is required and even then the Senate can make changes to the bill via the amendment process before passage.
    The good presidents used to consult with congress during treaty negotiations because they were smart enough to know they had to have a deal the Senate would approve of. I hope we can get a good president some time in the near future.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  9. #189
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    IF I were any civilized nation , particularly Iran, I'd be highly offended and disrespected by this letter.
    Talk about being "talked down upon", or patronized" !
    Was it that new Congressman, Cotton, who wrote it ??
    And he is an "educated" man ???
    Where is the Respectful Troll, C., now that the GOP needs him ?
    Iranians (and many other countries) consistently assume that our Executive is more powerful than it is, mirror-imaging from their own. Obama is not a Supreme Leader, and if he does not get the approval of Congress for any deal he makes, then it rests only on Executive Authority, which can be indeed overturned easily by the next POTUS.

  10. #190
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    Re: Did the GOP Senators commit a Treason act against Obama and the Country?

    YES: earthworm, Jesse Booth, OKgrannie, oncewas, reinoe, Unitedwestand13
    Personally, I appreciate the self-identification of the intellectually unserious.

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