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Assad or ISIS ?

Assad or Isis ?

  • Total voters
    33
Both situations are consequences of our involvement in Iraq.

The best we can hope to achieve is to learn the lesson of unintended consequences and avoid such entanglements in the future.

That said, Assad is a manageable player. I'm not aware of any realistic replacements. His family has been running the show there for nearly 50 years.
 
Apocalypse said:
The subject of the Syrian civil war is not for the West to decide regardless.
It can send aid to one side or the other but it doesn't involve itself directly with it.
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:shock: you are not being objective on this
 
WCH said:
To ISIS. I hear that ISIS want to occupy Turkey next.

And yes, as with you initial question, it's a conundrum regarding who to support.
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.))....
 
Medusa said:
a very clear question to (particularly )right wingers who hate islamists but keep ignoring the US government's great role in allowing isis to gain power in Syria
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I don't care. We defeat one Islamist and another takes it's place.At least one or two of our middle eastern allies does the same **** ISIS does which executes homosexuals, stone women for adultery and other non-crimes.Heck most of them want their own Islamic state. I do not think we should be in the picking and choosing which Islamist are are in power.So the regional powers need to solve this not us.
 
joG said:
Of course, we should not be leading and deploying. But we should be organizing and assisting. We should have the UN involved and preparing for massive police action there.
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I don't think we should be even doing that much. ISIS is not a threat to us and our record when it comes to intervening in the Middle East doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.
 
Medusa said:
When compared to islamists of course anyone should prefer the Assad regime.
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he's a murdering asshole. IS are a group of murdering assholes. i'm not going to waste my Tuesday deciding which murdering asshole is more palatable.
 
Helix said:
he's a murdering asshole. IS are a group of murdering assholes. i'm not going to waste my Tuesday deciding which murdering asshole is more palatable.
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I agree because you are always peaceful : ))) but whether he is asshole or not isnt a problem from teh western perspective.
 
joG said:
We should be working day and night on getting the regional powers including Europe to pressure the UN to level a robust a police action against both the dictator and the Caliphate. We are talking mass murder and atrocities against the populations. The UN installed R2P and should be held to it.
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basically, the region needs to handle it. that means every regional power, including Iran and Saudi Arabia. the west can't fix this one, and if the fix is external, some other group of assholes is likely to pop up and radicalize. this has to be solved regionally.
 
Medusa said:
I agree because you are always peaceful : ))) but whether he is asshole or not isnt a problem from teh western perspective.
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it's a problem. he is worse than other dictators that the US has fought wars to topple, and a couple years ago, there was serious pressure for the US to topple him. i am not on his side no matter how awful a common enemy is.
 
Helix said:
neither. the regional powers need to solve this problem.
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What problem? Assad was fighting terrorists. Americans were outraged at this so we started arming the terrorists even though they were aligned with Al-Qaeda. Now it turns out that ISIS popped up. We're fighting ISIS and once they're defeated we can go back to supporting Al-Qaeda.
 
Medusa said:
a very clear question to (particularly )right wingers who hate islamists but keep ignoring the US government's great role in allowing isis to gain power in Syria
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Assad was once friendly with the US. I am frankly unaware of why he became an enemy of the US. We all know the result of interfering in the leadership of other Mid Eastern countries. I also know that Assad is aligned with Putin although I'm not sure why this matters..

With respect to ISIS, we all know how that is playing out.
 
Helix said:
it's a problem. he is worse than other dictators that the US has fought wars to topple, and a couple years ago, there was serious pressure for the US to topple him. i am not on his side no matter how awful a common enemy is.
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you should learn about the great middle east Project.its not about him being dictator.I dont have to remind you of US interventions in Chile .you remember the dictator pinochet.
 
Gaius46 said:
I don't think we should be even doing that much. ISIS is not a threat to us and our record when it comes to intervening in the Middle East doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.
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I am less worried about ISIS and Assad being a real threat to us, though, ISIS is quite interested in giving us pain and could kill a couple of thousand Americans, if we let them. Should they get their hands on WMD like a dirty bomb, which is quite easily possible, that pain could be quite unpleasant.

As I said, that is not what is foremost in my mind. I think it is more important to get a general system of international security in place that robustly that protects populations and thus legitimated guaranties international security. If we do not do that, we will slide into a multipolar structure with the deadly wars small and great that such a game structure invariably holds in store.
 
Helix said:
basically, the region needs to handle it. that means every regional power, including Iran and Saudi Arabia. the west can't fix this one, and if the fix is external, some other group of assholes is likely to pop up and radicalize. this has to be solved regionally.
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To an extent, I agree. Where I differ is in my belief that it is becoming exceedingly important that the UN begin to uphold the UN Norm of protecting populations and move to guarantying security internationally. A place like Syria would be fine to intervene and on behalf of the populations using resources of the neighbors and other powers like China, Nato or Japan. The UN is not going to do this without prodding. We should be prodding.
 
Medusa said:
you should learn about the great middle east Project.its not about him being dictator.I dont have to remind you of US interventions in Chile .you remember the dictator pinochet.
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i support a major shift away from US intervention pretty much everywhere except for food and medicine. however, there is no way to make Assad palatable. he is a piece of **** murderer.
 
joG said:
To an extent, I agree. Where I differ is in my belief that it is becoming exceedingly important that the UN begin to uphold the UN Norm of protecting populations and move to guarantying security internationally. A place like Syria would be fine to intervene and on behalf of the populations using resources of the neighbors and other powers like China, Nato or Japan. The UN is not going to do this without prodding. We should be prodding.
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yes. we should be prodding Saudi Arabia to police its own neighborhood.
 
Helix said:
yes. we should be prodding Saudi Arabia to police its own neighborhood.
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Certainly they should be a major participant in the effort, I agree.
 
Medusa said:
a very clear question to (particularly )right wingers who hate islamists but keep ignoring the US government's great role in allowing isis to gain power in Syria
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Assad. Syria requires an iron fisted leader. It is not a homogenous country and what we are seeing is evidence of why hardline leadership has been required there for decades.
 
Declan said:
Assad. Syria requires an iron fisted leader. It is not a homogenous country and what we are seeing is evidence of why hardline leadership has been required there for decades.
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exactly!
 
Neither. They're both different levels of ****ed up. Assad, like Saddam did in Iraq, used violence and murder to keep the country from imploding in sectarian war. No matter what, the country is going to be a hellhole. ISIS is just broadcasting its atrocities to the rest of the world, whereas Assad tried very hard to hide his. :shrug:
 
While Egypt is not currently launching airstrikes alongside the U.S. and other Arab nations in Iraq and Syria, el-Sisi endorsed the idea of an "Arab ready force" with U.S. backing to take on security challenges.

He said this "ready force" could include his country, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Jordan and others,
and be "capable of defending our national security" and confronting dangers in the region.
The Egyptian president first called for such a regional coalition in a speech last month. In the interview with Fox News, he stressed that ISIS and other groups pose a growing threat
Exclusive: El-Sisi urges

Arab League is meeting soon. gotta like el-Sisi....read the interview
 
Why choose?

Kill them both.
 
Helix said:
yes. we should be prodding Saudi Arabia to police its own neighborhood.
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They won't.
They are building a wall ( fortified barriers around the kingdom).

saudi(1).jpg


The Washington Times reports that Saudi Arabia has decided to build a 600 mile security barrier in response to concerns that ISIS and other terrorists may try to seize control of Mecca and Medina. The Saudis already have in place a 1000 mile security barrier to keep out terrorists from Yemen.
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2015/01/saudi_arabia_builds_another_fe.html
 
annata said:
They won't.
They are building a wall ( fortified barriers around the kingdom).

saudi(1).jpg


The Washington Times reports that Saudi Arabia has decided to build a 600 mile security barrier in response to concerns that ISIS and other terrorists may try to seize control of Mecca and Medina. The Saudis already have in place a 1000 mile security barrier to keep out terrorists from Yemen.
CAMERA Snapshots: Saudi Arabia Builds Another "Apartheid Wall" to Keep Out Terrorists
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let them build it. it's still their responsibility. the US is not Saudi Arabia's pro bono military.
 
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