View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

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  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

    18 16.82%
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Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #81
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Impossible to say, because how would the Africans be now if there would never have been colonial forces robbing them blind?
    So because the Europeans came along and stole all their money, they were forced to live in grass huts?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

    We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

    So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

    *Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
    I answered the wrong question. My fault.

    The answer should have been "other", as there would be no one answer fits all or even on average. My first thought had been to the statistics that show that Black immigrants are far more successful than indigenously born on average.
    On the other hand it is highly probable that most would have never been born, as the probability of survival and reproduction must have increased dramatically, when they entered the US. After all, as expensive assets they were treated extremely well relative to other populations around the world. Their better habitations, food, clothing etc would have given that group a huge reproductive advantage over the folks back home. So it is improbable, that there could have been the number from immigration presently in the US.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So because the Europeans came along and stole all their money, they were forced to live in grass huts?
    Yes, but not that was done by Europeans. They enslaved them, they traded them, they kept them stupid and they forced their own religion upon them.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Yes, but not that was done by Europeans. They enslaved them, they traded them, they kept them stupid and they forced their own religion upon them.
    How much education were they getting in Africa?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Yes, but not that was done by Europeans. They enslaved them, they traded them, they kept them stupid and they forced their own religion upon them.
    Slavery is still an issue in africa, by africans. They didn't have the wheel in many parts until recently, thats NOT because of european colonialism, which in comparison is fairly recent.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Slavery is still an issue in africa, by africans. They didn't have the wheel in many parts until recently, thats NOT because of european colonialism, which in comparison is fairly recent.


    You are full of it. Africa is full of wheeled vehicles, which are used all over the continent, and have been for a long time.

    I don't know what your problem is, but you should deal with it.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 03-09-15 at 07:57 AM.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).
    That is not an assumption that could even play out in reality.
    Most of those in the US would not even be alive because of the conditions that existed in Africa.

    So the fact that they are alive and have a greater ability to advance their self far beyond what one in Africa has, yeah they would have it better even if their ancestors had not been slaves.

    The funny thing is that most black Americans that actually immigrated seem to do better than those born here. I wonder why that is? No bs baggage to use as an excuse?


    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Yes, you stated "those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price". This is inaccurate. While many Africans were sold to European and American slave traders, most of them were not already enslaved. They were free people who were kidnapped specifically to serve the needs of European and American slave traders.

    The majority of kidnapped Africans weren't already slaves in Africa. They were free people who were kidnapped to provide the labour that the European powers required to build their colonies in the Americas.

    The transatlantic slave trade: introduction

    It contradicts itself.

    They were slaves when sold to the slavers. As it states, they were captives when sold.
    It's generally seen as a 'trade' since it revolved around transactions, or a form of exchange, between the African sellers and the European buyers of captives. Indeed, it would have been impossible for European slave traders to venture into Africa and procure African captives without some African involvement – African kingdoms and societies were too strong and well organised. Even when Europeans built forts on the coast of West Africa, this was on land given, or rented, from Africans for this purpose.

    Biased article/study is biased. While some were kidnapped by there own African people, saying they were kidnapped in whole is a misnomer for the most part.
    Slavery was a part of the following of their cultural norms, and was exasperated by the demand western culture put on it.

    So while they may not have been slaves in their own country prior to be taken captive, they were slaves when sold/traded.





    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    NOTHING justifies slavery...nothing.
    You can be of that belief all you want. It isn't a bad one to have.

    But we are speaking of a time when it was justified by their own culture, and culture of the times.
    Under those auspicious, it was justified.

    Even though the West has taken on different beliefs, slavery is still accepted and justified in many of those African nations to this day.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    How much education were they getting in Africa?
    In Africa in the "good old days" as much as they needed to be misused by Europeans.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    In Africa in the "good old days" as much as they needed to be misused by Europeans.
    Try making some sense, what the hell are you talking about?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #90
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    I disagree. The Africans that have come to America "willingly" are basically traitors to Africa. Why did they move to America? Probably because Africa sucks. And if they have the ability to move to America then we can assume that most of these people come from a background of security and education. The fact that they came to America from Africa tells you that they consider America to be a better place to live than Africa. Most of the people that come from slaves would not have the ability in modern times to move themselves from Africa to America. What percentage of Africans have the ability to just move to America do you think? Less than 1%? It couldnt be many. See for a poor person it is not so easy to just move to another country. Most of these people descended from slaves would be stuck in Africa and their lives would suck because Africa sucks. So the fact that they came to America as slaves and became American is a good thing and has made them better off. Being born in the USA is like winning the lottery. Thanks to slavery these Africans won the lottery.

    What you say is beyond ridiculous. This nonsense about Africans that have come to America willingly tend to do better. Why do you think that is? Can a poor and uneducated African easily move to America? Of course not. So what kind of Africans are coming? Of course they will tend to do better than a minority that underachieves in US society.

    You honestly think that because some black person had an ancestor that was a slave hundreds of years ago is disadvantaged by that? That is absurd. Is this what is wrong with Irish people? Vikings used to like to get hot white Irish slave girls from Ireland and sell them to wealthy Southern Europeans and Muslims. If they were extra hot they would get a nice collar. Ireland was the best source of hot white sex slaves for a long time. Is this why the Irish underachieve?

    edit- It is interesting with the collars. I had the same idea for those guys at Sugardaddy.com. Like expensive collars for high value sugarbabies. And when I read that Vikings did that I kind of felt bad.

    edit- But watch a Charlie XCX clip. Soon young sugarbabies will happily wear collars. It will be a symbol of ease and security. Not something to be ashamed of. And the nicer the collar, the better the contract the sugarbaby has. Why should a sugarbaby be ashamed of her blessings and ease?

    Lets get drunk on the minibar!

    edit- who is to say what is a slave and what is not anyway?



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