View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

    18 16.82%
  • Other

    19 17.76%
Page 3 of 25 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 248

Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #21
    Guru
    Zinthaniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    09-19-17 @ 10:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    I think it's rather ridiculous that so many are trying to offer black and white answers - "if blacks were not slaves then they'd still be in Africa and would not be a part of this great nation" <--- This is a bull**** response. especially since it apparently stems from the false notion that this country owes all it's greatness to white settlers. This countries greatness is nuanced and can be attributed to all the minorities that migrated here.

    Especially the black slaves on who's backs much of this country was built upon. A lot of the economic success of the south relied on slaves.

    So in an alternate universe where America never had black slaves the possible trajectories that alternate sequence of events could go is endless.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

  2. #22
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,159

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

    We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

    So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

    *Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.



    Well, most of them would hypothetically be living in Africa, which for most part means they'd be worse off in most ways that matter.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Between Athens and Jerusalem
    Last Seen
    05-18-16 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    33,522

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

    We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

    So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

    *Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
    Judging by how immigrant africans do compared to native AA's, they would be better off.

  4. #24
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,580

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Yes, you stated "those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price". This is inaccurate. While many Africans were sold to European and American slave traders, most of them were not already enslaved. They were free people who were kidnapped specifically to serve the needs of European and American slave traders.

    The majority of kidnapped Africans weren't already slaves in Africa. They were free people who were kidnapped to provide the labour that the European powers required to build their colonies in the Americas.

    The transatlantic slave trade: introduction
    No doubt that an increase in demand caused an increase in supply of, and profit on, slaves but my point is that areas with an existing slave trade were not created by the "sudden US demand" for slaves which was less than that of the Caribbean and South/Central America.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #25
    Black Is Smart
    Van Basten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The New New Frontier
    Last Seen
    11-06-17 @ 07:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    4,661

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Change Other to "Still in Africa" and you would have a winner.
    Exactly, that's about the only thing one can say for sure.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

  6. #26
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ModerateGOP View Post
    Thank you for making this thread! I am actually starting to write a science-fiction novel based on this very idea! So it will give me a lot to work with. The general idea I have is, that the majority of Africans stayed in Africa. They built up their defenses and civilized the continent. This led to a booming population and whites becoming a minority. The Africans are still quite totalitarian but have remained strictly isolationists because they are proud of their culture and don't feel the need to mess with others. Since the West is limited due to the slave trade never existing, and dominated by Chinese, French, and Irish. It is very scared of Africa's power. There is a twist in my book where the North is bombed and radiation makes it unlivable from Northern Virginia upwards. During the second World War, which still happens in their past, but slightly different. So the South is now called the United Southern States and are actually quite friendly with the Africans because Africans don't like dealing with Europe anymore than the South does. Though no African in their right minds would venture far from their shores and would not step foot into America. Racism is rampant throughout the world and whites are called pinkskins!

    I'm still working out the kinks but it's going somewhere, and I don't think anything like this has been published yet. If anybody knows of any novels like this or about this topic. I would love to check it out. I hope everyone likes my idea. Will be keeping an eye on this thread.
    That's a really cool idea for a novel and it sounds like an interesting read. I wish you the best of luck in your writing endeavors!

  7. #27
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, most of them would hypothetically be living in Africa, which for most part means they'd be worse off in most ways that matter.
    Without the influence of the slave trade, would they be worse off? Without the trade, the United States might not have fared as well since slavery gave it the free the labor it needed to acquire wealth which means it wouldn't be as dominant as it is today and, as such, Africa might not be as bad by comparison as it is today.

  8. #28
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,159

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Without the influence of the slave trade, would they be worse off? Without the trade, the United States might not have fared as well since slavery gave it the free the labor it needed to acquire wealth which means it wouldn't be as dominant as it is today and, as such, Africa might not be as bad by comparison as it is today.


    Pure speculation, with no evidence to back it up, based on the assumption that more for one means less for another, which is patently untrue on the scale of global economies.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  9. #29
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,159

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Without the influence of the slave trade, would they be worse off? Without the trade, the United States might not have fared as well since slavery gave it the free the labor it needed to acquire wealth which means it wouldn't be as dominant as it is today and, as such, Africa might not be as bad by comparison as it is today.

    To expand on this, most US industrial development took place in the North where there was no institution of slavery. Most westward expansion was fueled by cheap Chinese and Irish immigrant labor, and much of it occurred after 1865.

    Africa, however, has pretty much always been a mess on the whole, and remains so today even though Africa is almost entirely run by Africans now. There is no reason to assume that Africa would have developed an advanced culture on its own.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  10. #30
    Professor
    kjwins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last Seen
    07-01-17 @ 02:15 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,898

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Well since the country was build on cotton, there would be a need for someone to do the work. Can't see Native Americans doing that kind of work, so they would be treated just the same. If there was no slave trade, some group of people would have done it. I guess they would have been treated like all immigrants coming to this country. Be it Irish, Chinese, or black.

    I would liken them to Mexican's that come here today & pick fruit. Yes there would be racism, but not the kind of racism today between blacks & whites. So they would not be much better off than they are now.
    Last edited by kjwins; 03-08-15 at 05:32 PM.

Page 3 of 25 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •