View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

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Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #231
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    Sounds kind of fancy. And what is a bar?
    Basically the same thing, at least where I live...

    Bars may have more focus on beverages, whereas taverns have a bit more food to offer.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  2. #232
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Not to say slavery is justified, but I think if people weren't wrongfully bought and basically "kidnapped" from their home countries in Africa that they'd likely still be in Africa. I'm not so sure there have been many African pilgrims or immigrants to the US during colonial times or even prior to the invention of airplanes. I doubt they'd have the resources to come here, let alone know that another land existed. Had their ancestors not been enslaved their families would likely still be in impoverished Africa. Not to say slavery was justified, but just reviewing things I highly doubt they would have come to America during those times.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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  3. #233
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Well excuse me for blowing you little mind. I suppose remedial algebra is a bit hard for some to comprehend.
    Math and probability a specialty.
    Financial Advisor now, after 20 Years as Wall Street Arbitrageur, mainly in Convertible securities: Bonds, Preferred, Warrants, Options.
    Math was a prerequisite and a knack.

    Your posts are outa control Babble.
    Really, they are embarrassing rambles wanting to show off some extraneous nonsense and You Cannot debate in a Linear fashion.
    That last one was one of the most Kooky rants I have ever seen. (!)
    This one too.


    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel

    The problem with your little post is that you have based the age of the Upanishads on the conjecture of Europeans, some of whom were thoroughly ignorant about such concepts as the age of the Earth. The Upanishads are from an oral tradition that precedes your little date for the primitive counting on bones.
    http://hinduism.about.com/od/scriptu...upanishads.htm
    Time of Composition

    Historians and Indologists have put the date of composition of the Upanishads from around 800 - 400 B.C., though Many of the Verse Versions may have been Written Much Later. In fact, they were written over a very long period of time and do not represent a coherent body of information or one particular system of belief. However, there is a commonality of thought and approach.

    Oh Yeah, that's way older that 3100/3400 BC.

    Oucher!


    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel

    Here's something of interest for you. Jyotish shastra is part of the Vedic knowledge and is very old. The use of numbers for calculations and planetary positions was already highly advanced at the time of your PRIMITIVE "bone counting." WOW!!! DID YOU HEAR THAT???? EVEN THE JEWS GOT THEIR KNOWLEDGE FROM INDIA!!!!
    That's ONE Cherry-Picked Claim of One man on 'HinduOnline'.
    LOFL

    The Jews were an UNKNOWN, UNFORMED, People until almost 2000 Years AFTER my Documented claims of the Mesopotamians and Egyptians.
    The OT probably started being put to paper around 600 BC. (good timing for the Real date of Upanishads), tho AGAIN, HALF as old as Egyptian/Mesopotamian Numbers.

    In fact, some think the Jews started in the Northern Fertile Crescent app 2000 BC (and studies show they/WE are closely- perhaps ClosEST - related to the Kurds Genetically), and that might very well make much More sense for acquiring their early writing/literacy from the Mesopotamian tradition.
    Yeah, I like Genetics too.
    Which is one of many reasons I started 'Team Science' here 6 Years ago.
    I'm sending you an invite (to be #134) since you show definite interest and would be an interesting member.


    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel
    Simply put, so as not to blow your mind this time, YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE NUMBERS COME FROM. Get it? [ur=htp://HinduOnline.co/ FactsAboutHinduism/Astronomy.html] Astronomy[url]
    I apologize in advance for deleting the rest of your ignorant post.
    My post was short and On point Meat. Your posts are Wacky Rambles (Yikes, that Nonsense Algebra was SO OFF the Wall/Irrelevant!) and you haven't even addressed the Origin of NUMBERS, NOT 'Astronomy' from Mesopotamia and Egypt.
    Last edited by mbig; 03-11-15 at 01:20 AM.
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  4. #234
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    I can call Irish people the N word right? That makes sense doesnt it?



    edit- And what the hell is a tavern anyway? Us Aussie Irish drink at pubs.


    Ask an Irishman.

  5. #235
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    I note you post No link for these.
    Why?
    Because Wiki and other sources will tell you they are "Disputed" even as Counting devices: ie, identical Hash-marks, NOT "numbers"
    So Solly!
    Ishango Bone: as a rule, let me advise you to use Wikipedia as a starting point for further research and not the final say due to how it can be re-written by others.

    Anyhow, the use of a series of prime numbers between 10 and 20 may be to you random marks but there is a remarkable coincidence to minds that are not befuddled by sneering or hate.

    Whichever way you wish to go, prime numbers written in black africa, by people of very low IQ and therefore subhuman to the likes of you. If you can read further, the European Space Agency paper then builds circumstantial evidence from direct observations of counting systems in Africa - systems which have been used since before Christ and before the Egyptians were drawing hieroglyphics.

    So - "solly."

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    -- I'm not so sure there have been many African pilgrims or immigrants to the US during colonial times or even prior to the invention of airplanes. I doubt they'd have the resources to come here, let alone know that another land existed.
    If you read back, I posted about Great Zimbabwe and the city of Khami which flourished in the same era - this city had Chinese Ming Dynasty fragments and German ceramics.

    Archaeological finds include 16th century Rhineland stoneware, Ming porcelain pieces which date back to the reign of Wan-Li (1573-1691), Portuguese imitations of 17th-century Chinese porcelain, 17th-century Spanish silverware etc. These indicate that Khami was a major centre of trade, presumably linked (like Mapungubwe and Great Zimbabwe before it) to the Swahili ports on the East Africa coast.
    There is also talk of trade in Elephants to China - shipping them from East Africa to China.

  6. #236
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Math and probability a specialty.
    Financial Advisor now, after 20 Years as Wall Street Arbitrageur, mainly in Convertible securities: Bonds, Preferred, Warrants, Options.
    Math was a prerequisite and a knack.
    Ahhh!!! Wall Street!!! Interesting! The old LAH LAH GOLDBAR crowd of Greenspan and Robert Rubin!

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Your posts are outa control Babble.
    Really, they are embarrassing rambles wanting to show off some extraneous nonsense and You Cannot debate in a Linear fashion.
    That last one was one of the most Kooky rants I have ever seen
    This one too.
    This is what you call "baffle em with BS."

    Yep, that Wall Street crowd is known for it. Yep, that whole Goldman Sachs "LAH LAH GOLDBAR" crowd baffled the whole world with that MBS BS. Made themselves rich while the whole financial system went down. Bonds and options! Yep, it makes total sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Time of Composition
    Historians and Indologists have put the date of composition of the Upanishads from around 800 - 400 B.C.
    .....

    Oh Yeah, that's way older that 3100/3400 BC.
    Oucher!
    ...
    That's ONE Cherry-Picked Claim of One man on 'HinduOnline'.
    As I have said before, the dates that your Wall Street approved historians are CONJECTURE and are highly controversial. AS AN EXAMPLE, consider the clown Michael Witzel, who is one of your "esteemed" historians that comes up with these "baffle em with BS" dates. Since you love wiki, here's a snippet from an entry on the Vedas wrt dating

    ...
    Michael Witzel gives a time span of c. 1500 BCE to c. 500-400 BCE. Witzel makes special reference to the Near Eastern Mitanni material of the 14th century BCE the only epigraphic record of Indo-Aryan contemporary to the Rigvedic period. He gives 150 BCE (Patańjali) as a terminus ante quem for all Vedic Sanskrit literature, and 1200 BCE (the early Iron Age) as terminus post quem for the Atharvaveda.
    ....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

    So this clown Michael Witzel is considered to be a so called expert at dating the Vedas and is one of the people who these makes these dates that YOU love to reference. Well guess what? He is considered a fool and a clown by Sanskrit scholars in India. Here's what happened when he recently went to India and presented his bull****:

    Harvard professor Michael Witzel, who recently visited India in the guise of a ‘scientist’ and ‘Sanskrit scholar,’ has claimed in his tour report that his presentations and lectures at the science conference in Hyderabad and places were a success. Claiming the Hindutva form of ‘chauvinism’ is waning in India, he ridiculed Indian scholars with his usual bellicosity.

    Though his visit and engagements were kept low key by the organizers, the events following his unsuccessful neo-colonial sojourn in Chennai subjected the visit to uncomfortable (for Witzel) scrutiny via the internet, and Witzel had to meet with surprise guests at almost every Indian venue thereafter.

    Witzel is hardly a household name in India. The few who know him see him in a negative light; for those following the CAPEEM (California Parents for the Equalisation of Education Materials) case in the US, he is better known as the mastermind behind the Harvard Donkey Trial. A small introduction to Dr. Michael Witzel is in order, so that readers get to know him and his minions in India better.

    Michael Witzel follows Max Muller and bases his ideas on Philology, a pseudo-science of White Christian origin. An ardent advocate of the fanciful Aryan Invasion Theory, now diluted to Aryan Migration Theory, he claims that a race called Aryans migrated from Central Asia and hence Sanskrit came into India from Central Asia and it is not a Bharatiya (Indian) language. It is his academic position that anything against Biblical ideas is false or a pseudo-science. He does not accept evidences based on DNA, Carbon Dating and Archaeology. Though positioned as a Professor of Sanskrit at Harvard, it is alleged that his knowledge of the language is limited, to put it charitably.

    Witzel is promoted by the Church and has great animosity towards Hindu cultural heritage and religious tradition. He has abused Hindus for cremating their dead and has authored the profound insight that the sacred Mantra “Om” is used to call one’s ‘wife’ and ‘goat’.
    (Ref: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-E...h/message/2134
    And http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indo-E...h/message/2164).
    To be continued in subsequent post.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 03-11-15 at 05:23 AM.

  7. #237
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Time of Composition
    Historians and Indologists have put the date of composition of the Upanishads from around 800 - 400 B.C.
    CONTINUED

    He is addicted to trivialising and diminishing Indian scholars on Hinduism.
    Petitions were sent to Harvard authorities asking them to end its association with ‘hate groups’ by mentioning the nefarious designs of Witzel & Co.
    Harvard Sanskritist: Nothing to write home about

    So it is the moronic conjecture of people like that who you rely on for your dates. But here's where it gets interesting. This so called "expert" on dating the Vedic literature got his butt chewed and handed back to him on a plate when confronted by experts in India.

    ...

    The occasion was a lecture on the Rgveda by Prof. Michael Witzel, at the India International Centre, on 10 July 2009. Presided over by Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan, it was attended by scholars of different hues and expectations. No one suspected that Witzel with his claim to be a ranking Vedic scholar knew so little that he could not answer a single query. Indeed, he appeared blank as far as the Rgveda was concerned.
    ...

    Many archaeologists and professors of history attended the lecture, including your writer, Vedic scholar Bhagwan Singh. When the floor was thrown open for discussions, Bhagwan Singh introduced himself as the author of The Vedic Harappans, and said that his data contradicted each and every statement made by Witzel; he sought permission to exchange notes on a few issues. With the Chair’s permission, Singh said:

    - You have reordered the Rgvedic strata, rating IV and VI to be the oldest and the rest belonging to intermediate and late stages. I have no objection to your sequence, but find your chronology miserably on the lower side. There is a reference to white pottery in one verse in Book IV (4.27.5). White pottery is a distinctive feature of Hakra Ware dated to 3000 BC. This goes against your dating of 1500-1250 BC for the Rgveda.

    Witzel was dumbstruck. He murmured something inaudible, avoiding the audience, looking sideways. He tried to explain that the sequence arranged by him was based on the number of verses in a book, the smallest being the oldest. It caused Kapila ji and others to smile openly. I could not make out the reason and reminded him that Book IV is shorter than Book VI; but the shortest book is Book II! So here again, he was caught on the wrong foot.

    He hesitantly managed, “There is no evidence of chariot or horse in India earlier than the mid-second millennium.”

    - But Professor, the asva in Rgveda, whatever could it have been, was brought from sea bound areas, even the asva in the horse sacrifice, mentioned in Book I, hymn 163.

    Prof. Witzel had no choice but to bite his lips in desperation.
    ...

    - You talk of substrate effect of Proto-Munda and suggest no role of Proto-Dravidian at the early stage. But Kipper had concluded that three ethnic groups participated in a cultural process. The three are conspicuously present in the Rgveda, Bhr.gus Dravidian, Angirasas Mundari, besides the Sanskrit speakers.

    Prof. Witzel mumbled something for a minute; his nervousness was apparent in his evasive gestures.
    ...

    After a few worthless queries, the debate shrunk back to Michael Witzel, Kapila Vatsyayan, and Bhagwan Singh.

    - The problem with you, Professor, is that you are not familiar with the content of Book IV even. Hymn 57 of Book IV gives a graphic depiction of advanced agriculture, with a plough almost similar to the one that was common in India up to the mid-twentieth century, drawn by a pair of bullocks and driven by a ploughman in service. And in one of the Rics, the poet talks of milking the earth as a cow, year after year. It testifies to advanced agricultural activities with sedentary population and belies the myth of nomadism, pastoralism, and barbarity.

    The Chair could not hold her laughter; Witzel shook in dismay....
    Michael Witzel: rattled rat at IIC

    So the point is that not everyone accepts those garbage dates that you put forward. It is no more than the conjecture of morons.


    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    The Jews were an UNKNOWN, UNFORMED, People until almost 2000 Years AFTER my Documented claims of the Mesopotamians and Egyptians
    So what? I said they derived knowledge from India, nothing more.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    that Nonsense Algebra was SO OFF the Wall/Irrelevant
    There was nothing nonsensical about it. It was simple, remedial algebra that was kept VERY simple to make a point. The point was that the work of great Indian mathematicians like Aryabhata and Madhava were expansions and commentary on core principals that had come down in oral tradition from thousands of years before.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    you haven't even addressed the Origin of NUMBERS
    No addressed it. Its just that you are so busy "baffling em with BS" that you didn't notice. Here it is again

    The Hindu systems of astronomy are by far the oldest and that from which the Egyptians, Greek, Romans and - even the Jews derived from the Hindus their knowledge."
    .....
    1. The observations on which the astronomy of India is founded, were made more than three thousand years before the Christian era; and in particular, the places of the sun and the moon, at the beginning of the Kali-yoga/Calyougham (i.e., 17/18 February 3102 B.C.), were determined by actual observation.

    2. Though the astronomy which is now in the hands of the Brahmins, is so ancient in its origin, yet it contains many rules and tables that are of later construction.

    3. The basis of the four systems of astronomical tables which we have examined, is evidently the same.

    4. The construction of these tables implies a great knowledge of geometry, arithmetic, and even of the theoretical part of astronomy.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1064407199

  9. #239
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    -- This so called "expert" on dating the Vedic literature got his butt chewed and handed back to him on a plate when confronted by experts in India.

    Michael Witzel: rattled rat at IIC

    So the point is that not everyone accepts those garbage dates that you put forward. It is no more than the conjecture of morons --
    A modern day Robert Gayre no doubt

  10. #240
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless.
    I don't care, and you shouldn't either.

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