View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

    18 16.82%
  • Other

    19 17.76%
Page 21 of 25 FirstFirst ... 111920212223 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 248

Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #201
    Sage
    Crosscheck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,548

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    Really. The Irish overachieve do they? I thought they were a bunch of retards. What is so great about Ireland. What is it with Americans and the Irish? In British and Aussie/New Zealand culture there is none of this 'Boston Strong' nonsense. Irish are a bunch of retards. You dont know Irish jokes? The thrust is that the Irish are stupid. And where did you get the idea that the Irish are strong anyway? You Americans are really impressed by the little Irish? How about when the Normans invaded Ireland. The Normans were insulted if the little Irish even dared try to attack them.

    Why do Americans love the Irish? And what exactly is so great about the Irish again?
    Ah, if you could only have the pleasure of telling all that crap to this Irish-American.


  2. #202
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,974
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

    We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

    So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

    *Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
    Well, we really can't answer this question and many people's answers are based off the assumption that history would have been the same had there been no Trans-Atlantic slave trade.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  3. #203
    Almost respectable

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    36,243

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Well, we really can't answer this question and many people's answers are based off the assumption that history would have been the same had there been no Trans-Atlantic slave trade.
    Which was depressingly predictable.

  4. #204
    onomatopoeic
    mbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-17 @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,350

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Well, we really can't answer this question...
    True, it was a Preposterous Premise/poll.
    Like so many, Framed to try and make a point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Invisible
    and Many people's answers are based off the assumption that history would have been the Same had there been no Trans-Atlantic slave trade.
    By far the SMALLEST position, 2 votes/2%, said things would be the 'Same' for blacks.
    What a Bizarre take/Mischaracterization on your part!
    Then you go even a bit further/Broader by suggesting that people here feel "History would be same without the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade."
    Huh?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal to/agreeing with Mr Invisible
    Which was depressingly predictable
    Except, of course, his take is Obviously and Utterly Untrue: not only baseless, but Opposite of what the votes show.
    But hey, once Again, agree away if it suits your PC Politics.
    Last edited by mbig; 03-10-15 at 02:48 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  5. #205
    Sage
    RDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Last Seen
    12-18-17 @ 11:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,398

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    I guess we here have to start enslaving people before they could be somewhere.

  6. #206
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    01-21-18 @ 04:55 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,867

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Granted, the Arab World, India, and the Far East probably could have advanced on their own, if they'd had the right factors to work with.

    Unfortunately, however, they didn't. Their cultures were also too mired in anti-progressive world views to even think to try.

    The West changed their thinking in this regard by tearing down the existing status quo.

    SubSaharan Africa and South America, however, were a bit farther behind than even that. They were basically stuck at Bronze and Iron Age levels of technology and development, with little hope of moving beyond those limitations at any point in the foreseeable future.
    Colonialism was not just about slaves but about huge exploitation of resources which helped Europe and the Americas develop. Leopold of Belgium is a great example of how some European nations enriched themselves for a very important period of time. The benefits of the modern world we live in now are at the cost of someone else - and as I have shown on this thread already, most Europeans had a very good reason to discredit any developments or technological advances in Africa.

    At the end of the day though - the history of Europe in Africa means most African nations are turning to alliances with China. China has invested heavily in Africa and developments are coming faster in the last 20 years than they ever did under white history or influence. Most westerners are still heavily influenced by the "Bell Curve" fallacy and pretty soon that will be an insignificant moment in African history as viewed by Westerners.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    What?
    Numbers may have started in Egypt, a mixed, not sub-saharan culture --
    And which continent is Egypt in? The general slant of what I said was writing and numbers developed in (guess where?) ..............

  7. #207
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    01-21-18 @ 04:55 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,867

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Much of 'the mess' in Africa is due to European, Asian (Arab and Indian primarily), and American colonialism.
    The counter of that is the much lauded developments and advances where funded by the wealth produced by colonialism which simply means the exploitation of someone else's resources, workers and land for as little cost as possible.

    Give any culture a massive induction of free money and labour and you will see advances in all areas.

  8. #208
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    01-21-18 @ 04:55 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,867

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Rather than personal opinion: here are some more papers on the reversals inflicted on Africa and South America.

    colonial powers arrested the natural development of the African economic system. ... indigenous Afiican economy was subordinated to the interests of Europe. Link - University of Tennessee.
    This paper documents a reversal in relative incomes among the former European colonies. For example, the Mughals in India and the Aztecs and Incas in the Americas were among the richest civilizations in 1500, while the civilizations in North America, New Zealand, and Australia were less developed.
    Today the United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia are an order of magnitude richer than the countries now occupying the territories of the Mughal, Aztec, and Inca Empires. Economics, MIT Press.
    According to the geography view, societies that were relatively rich in 1500 should also be relatively rich today. In contrast, the reversal is consistent with the role of institutions in economic development. The expansion of European overseas empires starting in the 15th century led to a major change in the institutions of the societies they colonized. In fact, the European intervention appears to have created an 'institutional reversal' among these societies, in the sense that Europeans were more likely to introduce institutions encouraging investment in regions that were previously poor. This institutional reversal accounts for the reversal in relative incomes. Acemoglu, Johnson and Robinson.

  9. #209
    Sage
    shrubnose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,870
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    Really. The Irish overachieve do they? I thought they were a bunch of retards. What is so great about Ireland. What is it with Americans and the Irish? In British and Aussie/New Zealand culture there is none of this 'Boston Strong' nonsense. Irish are a bunch of retards. You dont know Irish jokes? The thrust is that the Irish are stupid. And where did you get the idea that the Irish are strong anyway? You Americans are really impressed by the little Irish? How about when the Normans invaded Ireland. The Normans were insulted if the little Irish even dared try to attack them.

    Why do Americans love the Irish?
    And what exactly is so great about the Irish again?


    One thing that's great about them is that they're not you.

  10. #210
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    I have often used Indians myself, especially when some PCer says "Arabs invented numbers/Algebra/Zero/etc."
    Good

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    However, Egyptians/Mesopotamians easily PRE-Date those you mention on the Overall question.
    5000+ years ago.
    About Twice as old as the Upanishads.
    Here your use of the word "easily" displays a lack of understanding. You don't know how old the Upanishads are and the age you are trying to assign to them is based on pure conjecture. This type of conjecture was started by an ignorant European, a German by the name of Max Mueller. You see Mueller was a Christian, and although he was somewhat sincere, he ignorantly believed that the Earth was created about 4000 years before the birth of Christ. As a result, he simply could not accept the Vedic scholars assertion concerning the age of Vedic knowledge and his dating was influenced by his ignorant belief. Since he was respected European scholar, his ideas influenced subsequent thinking in modern times. According to Vedic scholars, the great Vyasa compiled the Vedic knowledge that had been preserved in an oral tradition for thousands of years before that. He taught the Puranas and the Upanishads to students, who commented and expanded on them. As a crude analogy consider

    2x + 3x = 5x

    Now I can comment on that and say x's are like apples, oranges, or anything else in that two apples plus three apples equals five apples. So that is a comment on a core algebraic statement.

    Going further, consider the fundamental distributive property

    a * (b + c) = (a * b) + (a * c)

    Accepting this as true, someone could come along and say, guess what, then

    (a + d) * (b + c) = (a * b) + (a * c) + (d * b) + (d * c)

    Because if you let

    a = u + v

    then

    u * (b + c) = (u * b) + (u * c)

    and

    v * (b + c) = (v * b) + (v * c)

    Which most certainly implies that

    (a + d) * (b + c) = (a * b) + (a * c) + (d * b) + (d * c)

    So from the core statement a * (b + c), an expanded statement was derived.

    Similarly, the core knowledge of the Upanishads came from Vyasa and was commented and expanded on by his students and their subsequent students. But all of them, without exception, credit the understanding to Vyasa who himself said that he was stating what had been preserved in oral tradition extending back thousands of years. European scholars simply cannot accept this and as a result they try to base their dating of the Upanishads on conjecture and get confused when they see references to chronological events mentioned in the different Upanishads. What you have done here is merely regurgitate their confused statements.

    You see Indian mathematicians were doing far more than counting on bones for a long, long time. Way before people like Newton and Leibniz were doing calculus, Madhava had already done extensive research on such advanced mathematical topics as the behavior of infinite series

    For years, English scientist Isaac Newton and German philosopher Gottfried Leibniz both claimed credit for inventing the mathematical system sometime around the end of the seventeenth century.

    Now, a team from the universities of Manchester and Exeter says it knows where the true credit lies — and it's with someone else completely.

    The "Kerala school," a little-known group of scholars and mathematicians in fourteenth century India, identified the "infinite series" — one of the basic components of calculus — around 1350.
    .....

    "The beginnings of modern math is usually seen as a European achievement but the discoveries in medieval India between the fourteenth and sixteenth centuries have been ignored or forgotten," he said. "The brilliance of Newton's work at the end of the seventeenth century stands undiminished — especially when it came to the algorithms of calculus.

    "But other names from the Kerala School, notably Madhava and Nilakantha, should stand shoulder to shoulder with him as they discovered the other great component of calculus — infinite series."

    He argues that imperialist attitudes are to blame for suppressing the true story behind the discovery of calculus.

    "There were many reasons why the contribution of the Kerala school has not been acknowledged," he said. "A prime reason is neglect of scientific ideas emanating from the Non-European world, a legacy of European colonialism and beyond."
    Calculus created in India 250 years before Newton: study - Technology & Science - CBC News

    According to these early mathematicians they have merely commented and expanded on what was passed down in oral tradition for thousands of years. But Europeans can't accept that because of their egocentric arrogance.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 03-10-15 at 08:26 AM.

Page 21 of 25 FirstFirst ... 111920212223 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •