View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

    18 16.82%
  • Other

    19 17.76%
Page 2 of 25 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 248

Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #11
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,566

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Other. One is extremely unlikely to know if a given black person was (or was not) related to any slave so any racial prejudice is likely based on their race alone, with little or nothing to do with that particular person's family history. There is no "justification" for bigotry (racism is simply one form of bigotry) any more than their is justification for killing any snake in the US because 4 (native) species are venomous.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #12
    Guru
    Smeagol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    02-19-17 @ 11:35 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,147

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Change Other to "Still in Africa" and you would have a winner.
    I don't think that's accurate. If there were labor needs and opportunities arose to voluntarily migrate with the promise of freedom, fair compensation, or the opportunity to strike out as poisoners; think many Africans would have willingly traveled here just like many Europeans willingly travelled here.

    I can't look up a source right now but from what I understand, there are roughly as many Eurpoean Imigrants as there were Africans brought here by force but due to the harshness of slavery, the black American population did not live as long as did the population with European heritage and thus did not grow at the as me levels. That said, I agree there might not have been as many Africans who traveled here, with the absence of the cruelty of slavery, the rate as which black Americans families would have grown would likely to have given us a similar black American population.

    I appreciate it when people feel free to think out loud but there's a angle about the rationale that smacks of insensitivity that would be more easily seen if applied to other groups. Example: a plausible argument could be made that modern Israel would not exist today had not world support for the Jewish people not been heightened in the wake of Hitler's cruel atrocities against them. I can't imagine anyone suggesting people should take a different look at the holocaust because "where would Israel be today if their ancestors had never been sent to concentration camps?"
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  3. #13
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,566

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Obviously very few (if any) blacks that came to the US as slaves would have come here any other way. Contrary to many folks view of the slave trade, those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price. My answer is other, as in, they would be elsewhere yet likely still slaves.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #14
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Obviously very few (if any) blacks that came to the US as slaves would have come here any other way. Contrary to many folks view of the slave trade, those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price.
    Source?

  5. #15
    Guru
    Declan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 04:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    4,670

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I don't think that's accurate. If there were labor needs and opportunities arose to voluntarily migrate with the promise of freedom, fair compensation, or the opportunity to strike out as poisoners; think many Africans would have willingly traveled here just like many Europeans willingly travelled here.

    I can't look up a source right now but from what I understand, there are roughly as many Eurpoean Imigrants as there were Africans brought here by force but due to the harshness of slavery, the black American population did not live as long as did the population with European heritage and thus did not grow at the as me levels. That said, I agree there might not have been as many Africans who traveled here, with the absence of the cruelty of slavery, the rate as which black Americans families would have grown would likely to have given us a similar black American population.

    I appreciate it when people feel free to think out loud but there's a angle about the rationale that smacks of insensitivity that would be more easily seen if applied to other groups. Example: a plausible argument could be made that modern Israel would not exist today had not world support for the Jewish people not been heightened in the wake of Hitler's cruel atrocities against them. I can't imagine anyone suggesting people should take a different look at the holocaust because "where would Israel be today if their ancestors had never been sent to concentration camps?"
    The welcoming arms of America became fists in pockets toward the Chinese the day the transcontinental railroad was completed. The same would have happened to Africans had they come voluntarily in any significant numbers.
    If I blow the conch and they don't come back; then we've had it. We shan't keep the fire going. We'll be like animals. We'll never be rescued.

  6. #16
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I don't think that's accurate. If there were labor needs and opportunities arose to voluntarily migrate with the promise of freedom, fair compensation, or the opportunity to strike out as poisoners; think many Africans would have willingly traveled here just like many Europeans willingly travelled here.
    Yeah, I don't get this attitude that Africans, unlike many Europeans, Asians and South Americans, would have just stayed in Africa.

  7. #17
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    The African Americans would be much worse off. They live in a superpower thanks to slavery. How many Africans would move from America to Africa? Not many I bet. So is America really so bad?
    Ah, so black people should be grateful that their ancestors were subjected to brutal slavery that resulted in beating, rape, murder and other heinous crimes against humanity because now they get to have Big Macs. Awesome.

  8. #18
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,566

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Source?
    For what? I will assume my assertion that balck slaves were mostly bought from slave traders in Africa.

    It is believed that the first African slaves were imported to the New World at the beginning of the 17th century and that the first slaves came from Senegambia and the Windward Coast.

    Senegambia was a loosely defined region of West Africa that comprises the present-day nations of Senegal and The Gambia. Windward Coast is roughly the current country of Ivory Coast. This region also had a long history of supplying slaves to the Arab World.
    Where In Africa Did Slaves Come From?

    EDIT: See also
    http://www.theroot.com/articles/worl...one_place.html


    If you question how many of those blacks. already in the hands of slave traders, would have otherwise made it into the US then I will leave that to common sense.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 03-08-15 at 04:14 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #19
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    For what? I will assume my assertion that balck slaves were mostly bought from slave traders in Africa.

    Where In Africa Did Slaves Come From?

    EDIT: See also
    Where Did Slaves Come From in Africa? Angola Is One Place - The Root

    If you question how many of those blacks. already in the hands of slave traders, would have otherwise made it into the US then I will leave that to common sense.
    Yes, you stated "those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price". This is inaccurate. While many Africans were sold to European and American slave traders, most of them were not already enslaved. They were free people who were kidnapped specifically to serve the needs of European and American slave traders.

    The majority of kidnapped Africans weren't already slaves in Africa. They were free people who were kidnapped to provide the labour that the European powers required to build their colonies in the Americas.

    The transatlantic slave trade: introduction

  10. #20
    Formerly ModerateGOP
    NeverTrumpGOP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Post-Trump America
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    10,591
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

    We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

    So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

    *Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
    Thank you for making this thread! I am actually starting to write a science-fiction novel based on this very idea! So it will give me a lot to work with. The general idea I have is, that the majority of Africans stayed in Africa. They built up their defenses and civilized the continent. This led to a booming population and whites becoming a minority. The Africans are still quite totalitarian but have remained strictly isolationists because they are proud of their culture and don't feel the need to mess with others. Since the West is limited due to the slave trade never existing, and dominated by Chinese, French, and Irish. It is very scared of Africa's power. There is a twist in my book where the North is bombed and radiation makes it unlivable from Northern Virginia upwards. During the second World War, which still happens in their past, but slightly different. So the South is now called the United Southern States and are actually quite friendly with the Africans because Africans don't like dealing with Europe anymore than the South does. Though no African in their right minds would venture far from their shores and would not step foot into America. Racism is rampant throughout the world and whites are called pinkskins!

    I'm still working out the kinks but it's going somewhere, and I don't think anything like this has been published yet. If anybody knows of any novels like this or about this topic. I would love to check it out. I hope everyone likes my idea. Will be keeping an eye on this thread.
    There's no greater irony than a Trump supporter pointing out hypocrisy; Unless it's Trump himself.

Page 2 of 25 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •