View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

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  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

    18 16.82%
  • Other

    19 17.76%
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Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #181
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    You're missing out the interconnectedness of scientific developments that link advances in Africa (writing and numbers)....
    What?
    Numbers may have started in Egypt, a mixed, not sub-saharan culture.
    Writing probably started in Sumeria/Mesopotamia.

    Sub-saharan Africa would still live like they had for Hundreds of Thousands of years (and some still do) were it not for the importation of other dispersed Cultures/races.

    AIDS/Ebola (Malaria, Polio, Famine, etc), and the like would have certainly and continuously wiped out Large parts, if not Most of the continent were it not for Western Medicine. And of course, Tribal warfare. Nature was 'in balance' and primitive before IQ wiped out other species.

    While slavery was intolerably cruel, these people at least had/Now Have existence and Much better lives due to their importation. Though probably 1/3 or more died in hideous transit.
    There is No large movement to return to Africa.
    Liberia, Center of the recent Ebola outbreak, was a small effort to do just that. How they doing?

    Subsharan Africa is pretty much a disaster as far as self-government ("Tribes with flags"), except for those countries that Did have Colonial vestiges: Western Peoples/systems. ie South Africa.
    Last edited by mbig; 03-09-15 at 06:46 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Oh. My. God.

    And it all comes back to your Christian beliefs.

    If you didnt believe in my God, you were inferior. Period.

    That's good enough for me! Such thinking is always obscured by dogma.


    It's no where near that simple, first off. Many of the ideas that ultimately resulted in Western supremacy in the Early Modern Era predate Christianity, and go all the way back to Greece and Rome. Christianity simply made them a bit more humane.

    Secondly, the history is undeniable.
    The Industrial Revolution and Liberal Enlightenment took place in Europe and Europe's immediate sphere of influence, no where else. They spread outwards from there, and spread their various benefits with them.

    Again, I'm sorry, but dem's the facts.

  3. #183
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    You can't have colonialism without colonization

    The Dutch east India company was chartered by England not the US

    Which is the specific point I'm making, Europe got Africa pregnant so why are we making the child support payments ( foreign aid) we never colonized Africa so I hate hearing people talk as if we share the blame. The constitution banned the slave trade internationally a decade after founding. As of 1800 not a sigma slave was brought legally to the US for sale. We had little involvement in African affairs from that point on

    Edit sorry Holland not England, and it predates our founding as a country
    *sigh* I should have realized you wouldnt get that DEIC was an example of privately sponsored business investment-driven colonization, which you implied was an exception. And it was private business that had a special and symbiotic relationship with the Netherlands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #184
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Its true, in most places man was able to hunt them out of existence-but I dont think thats why african cultures didn't flourish. There were always tigers in India, and many similar large animals but they comparatively flourished.
    I hardly think it's the only factor. However, I think it probably did play a role.

    The mortality rates would've been higher because all of the things trying to kill humans, and agriculture would've been a lot more difficult because most of the animals native to SubSaharan Africa are too vicious/instinctively wary of humans to allow themselves to be domesticated.

    It was a lot easier for us to reshape environments outside of Africa to our needs.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-09-15 at 07:14 PM.

  5. #185
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by da60 View Post
    how the hell should i - or anyone else - know?
    best answer on this thread !!!!!

    Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?-buddy-christ-11-jpg

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  6. #186
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    OP confused nuance for red herrings. Bit like asking where WASPs would be if WASPs didn't colonise North America.

    They'd be like any other minority in the States or how they are in other predominantly Anglo-Saxon nations maybe. Smaller percentage of the population, little political power as a group and probably no president sharing their race.

  7. #187
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    The hypothetical question itself operates on the assumption that they or their ancestors would have all immigrated here at some point. Therefore, to address this question, we must also operate from that assumption.

    Perhaps, but there are two kinds of assumptions: reasonable ones, and badly flawed ones. This is the latter...

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  8. #188
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Much of 'the mess' in Africa is due to European, Asian (Arab and Indian primarily), and American colonialism. There is no reason to assume Africa would not have developed an advanced culture on it's own. It had several localized ones in the past. Would you say the same about South America?They never would have 'developed an advanced culture?' The Inca's had an advanced civilization, even tho they never had the wheel.


    I will admit I am not an expert on either African or South American history. I probably know a lot more than the average Joe on the street, but my knowledge of those two subjects is admittedly well short of scholarly.


    However, most of Africa was still tribal and stone-age when Europeans began muddling the waters.... same for South America. To assume 500 years would have been sufficient time for them to develop an advanced culture remotely comparable in level to our own if left to their own devices, seems to me to be quite a stretch. The West had vast empire-states, iron-age technology, advanced math and architecture and so on around 2000 years earlier than that (Greece, Rome).

    But you pays your money and makes your assumptions when playing what-if...

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  9. #189
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    The only sentence of your post I agree with.



    Highly subjective and so much depends on your circumstances, which are often not so golden in the USA. For example, I think I'd rather be out with the guys in the bottom picture here:

    Attachment 67181630
    LA welfare line

    Attachment 67181631
    Middle class Africans on a night out, Johannesburg.




    Quite often the booby prize.
    Being amongst the world's richest nations doesn't make things rosy in the garden for all your citizens. Inequality and social injustice make any nation, rich or poor, suck. No, I wouldn't want to live in most African nations, but I'd equally not want to live in the USA.


    Outrageous claim.
    Should I start with Boyle and Joyce?
    Do you actually know any Irish people? Ever been to Ireland?




    That you have to sell it so much speaks a bundle.

    I actually find the original question a little pointless. As someone has pointed out, they wouldn't be the same people as they wouldn't have been through the intermarriage and the rapes that have made them very different from African Africans. Does anybody really care? Would it not be more pertinent to concentrate on where they are now as a community and where they're going in the future?
    Ok. Thanks Urethra.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    You obviously know very little about the Irish.
    Really. The Irish overachieve do they? I thought they were a bunch of retards. What is so great about Ireland. What is it with Americans and the Irish? In British and Aussie/New Zealand culture there is none of this 'Boston Strong' nonsense. Irish are a bunch of retards. You dont know Irish jokes? The thrust is that the Irish are stupid. And where did you get the idea that the Irish are strong anyway? You Americans are really impressed by the little Irish? How about when the Normans invaded Ireland. The Normans were insulted if the little Irish even dared try to attack them.

    Why do Americans love the Irish? And what exactly is so great about the Irish again?

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