View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

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  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

    18 16.82%
  • Other

    19 17.76%
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Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #151
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What, you think the Irish built the ships they came over on (the ships that managed to make it this far, that is.)
    Ummm... Predominantly Irish labor forces actually did build quite a few of them, in point of fact.

    They just didn't own them, per se.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-09-15 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #152
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Other.

    Too many variables to determine.

    Why did they leave home?
    Why did they choose to immigrate to the US?
    Was there a Civil War in the US? (And related question - how would the US have developed without slavery existing?)
    Soooooo many variables.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #153
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post

    Either way regardless, however, the fact that these cultures were, in fact, "primitive" in comparison to the rest of the world is undeniable. There was also really no way they could have corrected that state of affairs purely on their own initiative using the tools and resources they had available - at least not within any kind of reasonable time frame.
    That has less to do with their abilities and more to do with being 'conquered' by colonialists.

    Look at the damage done in India, all of the native people in North and South America....where are many of those native cultures now? Advanced? No, but curtailed by outside influences.

    Living in less habitable areas such as colder climates, is one thing that influenced populations that migrated to and lived in harsher environments. In order to survive, they had to be more innovative. They just often...not always...developed innovations at a faster rate in order to survive.

    It's an oversimplification and is only one angle in the topic but a valid one nonetheless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #154
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Which might very well play into why we have done so well everywhere else.

    Human beings are an "invasive species" on basically every continent but Africa. Living in environments where everything wasn't specifically adapted to kill them very likely gave non-Africans more breathing room to expand their populations and reap the socio-economic and technological developments that went along with that state of affairs.

    Most Africans didn't really have that opportunity.
    Africa had relatively large amounts of food and a fairly pleasant climate (actually slightly cooler than it is now) with early man. One theory I have heard is that a natural selection occurred as man moved out of Africa, where more cooperation and insight was needed to survive in more hostile climates.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Much of 'the mess' in Africa is due to European, Asian (Arab and Indian primarily), and American colonialism. There is no reason to assume Africa would not have developed an advanced culture on it's own. It had several localized ones in the past. Would you say the same about South America?They never would have 'developed an advanced culture?' The Inca's had an advanced civilization, even tho they never had the wheel.
    In the big picture, European and Asian influence is only seen in the last thousand years or so, and in many areas, its much much less.
    Africa has always been primitive, relative to other places.

  6. #156
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That has less to do with their abilities and more to do with being 'conquered' by colonialists.

    Look at the damage done in India, all of the native people in North and South America....where are many of those native cultures now? Advanced? No, but curtailed by outside influences.

    Living in less habitable areas such as colder climates, is one reason that influenced populations that migrated to and lived in harsher environments. In order to survive, they had to be more innovative. They just often...not always...developed innovations at a faster rate in order to survive.

    It's an oversimplification and is only one angle in the topic but a valid one nonetheless.
    I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no reason to think that Africa, India, or the Aztec Empire would be sporting skyscrapers and smartphones right now if European Colonialism had never occurred. To the contrary, they would most likely be still be sitting more or less exactly where they were before we found them, with only minor incremental developments to show for the centuries that have passed in between.

    Basically, the only way Africans or South Americans were going to get access advanced technology this millennia was for someone else to give it to them. The only way India, the Arab world, or the Far East were going to rise above the cultural stasis they'd set themselves into in any kind of timely fashion was for someone else to force them out of it.

    For better or worse, European Colonialism, like all "imperial" influence throughout history, served that purpose. It spread the technology and mindset of the conquering power, while removing the existing status quos which had previously served to prevent progress.

  7. #157
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Much of 'the mess' in Africa is due to European, Asian (Arab and Indian primarily), and American colonialism. There is no reason to assume Africa would not have developed an advanced culture on it's own. It had several localized ones in the past. Would you say the same about South America?They never would have 'developed an advanced culture?' The Inca's had an advanced civilization, even tho they never had the wheel.
    Really what colonies did the United States have in Africa?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
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  8. #158
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no reason to think that Africa, India, or the Aztec Empire would be sporting skyscrapers and smartphones right now if European Colonialism had never occurred. To the contrary, they would most likely be still be sitting more or less exactly where they were before we found them, with only minor incremental developments to show for the centuries that have passed in between.

    Basically the only way Africans or South Americans were going to get access advanced technology this millennia was for someone else to give it to them. The only way India, the Arab world, or the Far East were going to rise above the cultural stasis they'd set themselves into in any kind of timely fashion was for someone to force them out of it.

    For better or worse, European Colonialism, like all "imperial" influence throughout history, served that purpose. It spread the technology and mindset of the conquering power, while removing the existing status quos which had previously served to prevent progress.
    What?? That is pure speculation. Plenty of research has been done to support what I wrote and you've admitted to reading some of it in the past. Did you not understand it or just dismiss the parts you didnt like? Do you realize that you just wrote that with Anglo-saxon influence, the world would be culturally and technologically primitive today?? That is some hubris and arrogance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #159
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Really what colonies did the United States have in Africa?
    There were no 'colonies' in Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #160
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    In the big picture, European and Asian influence is only seen in the last thousand years or so, and in many areas, its much much less.
    Africa has always been primitive, relative to other places.
    Africa was more primitive than Europe and much of Asia a thousand yrs ago? Good luck with that.

    China was ahead of just about everyone however, that long ago. And Egypt wasnt doing too badly either, nor the Incas, altho I'd have to check dates for the Incas a little more closely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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