View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

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  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

    18 16.82%
  • Other

    19 17.76%
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Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #141
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    I havent read the entire thread yet and can only imagine the racist cluster**** it is.

    However I think that just like any other people from other countries looking for a better life, they would have come here. And been subjected to the same prejudices and barriers that Italians, Irish, Poles, Chinese, etc. suffered until they also were assimilated into our culture. Would their skin color have been a bigger hurdle to overcome? Probably unfortunately.



    If my presumption of cluster**** is wrong, I apologize in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #142
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    To expand on this, most US industrial development took place in the North where there was no institution of slavery. Most westward expansion was fueled by cheap Chinese and Irish immigrant labor, and much of it occurred after 1865.

    Africa, however, has pretty much always been a mess on the whole, and remains so today even though Africa is almost entirely run by Africans now. There is no reason to assume that Africa would have developed an advanced culture on its own.
    Much of 'the mess' in Africa is due to European, Asian (Arab and Indian primarily), and American colonialism. There is no reason to assume Africa would not have developed an advanced culture on it's own. It had several localized ones in the past. Would you say the same about South America?They never would have 'developed an advanced culture?' The Inca's had an advanced civilization, even tho they never had the wheel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #143
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Not addressing the fact that your comparisons are historically invalid,
    They certainly aren't airtight, but are still useful for comparison.
    Certainly many Asians overcame arriving here at a Huge DISadvantage (even more recently), and even rose above the Host population/'race.'


    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    what is your position, then? That if Africans had immigrated here of their own volition they would end up with the same demographics they have now?
    I find the OP Poll ridiculous.
    Until Recently, Blacks ONLY came here because OF Slavery ..starting in the 17th C.

    They were in NO position TO come here (or even know of us) any more than other Primitive cultures, such as New Guinean or Amazonian Tribesman.
    It's an absurd Poll.

    BUT, bowing to the Nonsense/impossible question/conditions of the Poll - whose Abusive intimated POINT (like so many here) is that "Slavery is still the Main reason for Black Lack of Achievement and horrible state"....
    They Would have been better off coming here by choice... BUT of course they would NOT have in any significant number.
    AND, as my Imperfect example amply demonstrates, they have had plenty of time to overcome that.

    and lets be clear...
    Just as the OP, you are trying to "play Prosecutor" and get a "Yes" or "No" ONLY answer to a question that needs at least as much qualification as the OP gave To the 'poll'.
    (again, so many are abusively Framed in this section)

    Too bad you simply aren't adept enough to corner me into that unqualified Yes/No, nor answer the Gist of My pointS.
    Last edited by mbig; 03-09-15 at 05:28 PM.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Much of 'the mess' in Africa is due to European, Asian (Arab and Indian primarily), and American colonialism. There is no reason to assume Africa would not have developed an advanced culture on it's own. It had several localized ones in the past. Would you say the same about South America?They never would have 'developed an advanced culture?' The Inca's had an advanced civilization, even tho they never had the wheel.
    The most "advanced" civilizations produced by either subSaharan Africans or South Americans were only roughly on par with those of the Eurasian Bronze Age. Frankly, even then, it should be noted that they only managed to reach that level of development several millennia after the rest of the world had left it far behind.

    Simply speaking, these peoples were, for all intents and purposes, developmental dead ends who weren't going to be going much of anywhere any time soon.

    Granted, that wasn't entirely their fault. They were arguably victims of circumstance more than anything else - geographical isolation preventing the exchange of ideas, lackluster mineralogy hampering metal working, a lack of easily domesticable animals resulting in stunted agricultural prospects and possibly even greater vulnerability to disease (i.e. no interspecies transmission of pathogens) where Native American cultures are concerned. Africans might have also struggled due to living in an environment which, due to our species' having evolved there, was actually adapted to keep their populations, and therefore societal development, in check.

    Either way regardless, however, the fact that these cultures were, in fact, "primitive" in comparison to the rest of the world is undeniable. There was also really no way they could have corrected that state of affairs purely on their own initiative using the tools and resources they had available - at least not within any kind of reasonable time frame.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-09-15 at 05:43 PM.

  5. #145
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ModerateGOP View Post
    Well that's easily done anyway, It has scifi elements. Maybe the disease reverses itself or maybe it somehow effects the West instead of Africa. It may be a blurb or something in there but not central to the story.
    I read alot of sci-fi and alternative history...I dont buy into crap that isnt supported at least somewhat realistically. One genre I do not read is fantasy.

    For instance I have alot of trouble with the fact that S.M Stirling never explained, in 13+ novels, what happened to cause the downfall of technologies. He's lucky he's a very talented writer who could develop very compelling characters and stories.

    Suggest you do some research into mosquito-borne illnesses in Africa and tse-tse flies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #146
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    They certainly aren't airtight, but are still useful for comparison.
    Certainly many Asians overcame arriving here at a Huge DISadvantage (even more recently), and even rose above the Host population/'race.'


    I find the OP Poll ridiculous.
    Until Recently, Blacks ONLY came here because OF Slavery ..starting in the 17th C.

    They were in NO position TO come here (or even know of us) any more than other Primitive cultures, such as New Guinean or Amazonian Tribesman.
    It's an absurd Poll.

    BUT, bowing to the Nonsense/impossible question/conditions of the Poll - whose Abusive POINT (like so many polls here) is that "Slavery is still the Main reason for Black Lack of Achievement and horrible state"....
    They Would have been better off coming here by choice... BUT of course they would NOT have in any significant number.
    AND, as my Imperfect example amply demonstrates, they have had plenty of time to overcome that.

    and lets be clear...
    Just as the OP, you are trying to "play Prosecutor" and get a "Yes" or "No" ONLY answer to a question that needs at least as much qualification as the OP gave To the 'poll'.
    (again, so many are abusively Framed in this section)

    Too bad you simply aren't adept enough to corner me into that unqualified Yes/No, nor answer the Gist of My point.
    Jesus...Christ...dude! It's a hypothetical scenario! Some of us enjoy those because it's a game to us -- it allows us to take what we know about immigrant groups in general and break down what would or wouldn't have happened in that scenario given what we do know.

    The hypothetical question wasn't created to attack you. Relax!

  7. #147
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Jesus...Christ...dude! It's a hypothetical scenario! Some of us enjoy those because it's a game to us -- it allows us to take what we know about immigrant groups in general and break down what would or wouldn't have happened in that scenario given what we do know.

    The hypothetical question wasn't created to attack you. Relax!
    IOW, you went from Seriously disagreeing with/Challenging me, to FOLDING your tent because you were Gutted!

    The Old Loser's Last Refuge "lighten up" after you Lost the point.
    Btw, it's a game to me too. I'm just better at it.
    b-bye!


    EDIT: Note Cardinal's Above And Below Posts are PERSONAL attacks after he Lost a point.

    He necessarily Dropped the issue and went for the empty "Lighten up Dude!"
    and again below, the His ego-saving-attempt/OFF TOPIC and usual/mandatory Last-Wording below.
    If you want to go for "lighten up" Cardinal, YOU are the one who should just drop it. Yes?
    Last edited by mbig; 03-09-15 at 05:45 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  8. #148
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I read alot of sci-fi and alternative history...I dont buy into crap that isnt supported at least somewhat realistically. One genre I do not read is fantasy.

    For instance I have alot of trouble with the fact that S.M Stirling never explained, in 13+ novels, what happened to cause the downfall of technologies. He's lucky he's a very talented writer who could develop very compelling characters and stories.

    Suggest you do some research into mosquito-borne illnesses in Africa and tse-tse flies.
    I definitely will thanks for the suggestion guys.
    There's no greater irony than a Trump supporter pointing out hypocrisy; Unless it's Trump himself.

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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    IOW, you went from Seriously disagreeing with/Challenging me, to FOLDING your tent because you were Gutted!

    The Old deflected Concession/Last Refuge "lighten up" after you Lost the point.
    I'm not folding anything. I'm telling you that you from your tone you probably have several pulsing veins on your forehead right now. Why are you taking this thread so personally?

  10. #150
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    What would they have used for transportation?

    Fill us in.




    What, you think the Irish built the ships they came over on (the ships that managed to make it this far, that is.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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