View Poll Results: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

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  • They would be in the same position they are now.

    3 2.80%
  • They would be in a better position.

    67 62.62%
  • They would be in a worse position.

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Thread: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

  1. #121
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).

    We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.

    So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?

    *Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
    All things being equal but not separate, I believe Black Americans would have progressed along very similar lines as Whites. People have to remember that the only true barrier that has hampered progress for Blacks in America has been generational racial bias. Remove this barrier from the very beginning when Blacks first started migrating to the new colonies over 239 years ago and it's clear that Blacks would have progressed along very similar lines as Whites especially when you consider that Blacks were enterprising and inventors as well as Whites despite the rigors of slavery, sharecropping or Jim Crow each lending to the stagnation and erosion (if not the corrosion) of Black society.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 03-09-15 at 03:26 PM.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    The question presumes kind of an "anti-rapture", where people just magically pop up out of nowhere. There would have been some migration in the ensuing years without slavery, but not nearly as much, so the black population would be much smaller than it is now.

    They would actually, probably, be better off, overall, partly because of the smaller numbers. Plus, the stigma of 'subhuman' wouldn't be there.
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Let me help you with this...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The question presumes kind of an "anti-rapture", where people just magically pop up out of nowhere. There would have been some migration in the ensuing years without slavery, but not nearly as much, so the black population would be much smaller than it is now.

    They would actually, probably, be better off, overall, partly because of the smaller numbers. Plus, the stigma of 'sub-human' wouldn't have been there.
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Let me help you with this...



    You're welcome.
    That's fair.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #125
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Some would have different histories, likely in Africa, while many would not exist at all. While the blame for black slavery here often falls squarely on the shoulders of the white colonists, the fact is that black slaves were available to them because of tribal wars in Africa. The slaves brought here were the losers of the tribal wars. They sold the men and children and kept the women (at least some of them) as the spoils of war. So had there not been a market, they would likely have been killed.

  6. #126
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Okay, you know what? I don't know or even particularly care by what mechanics Africans could or couldn't have made it to America. My only point was that if they had come here voluntarily it would have had a very different outcome. Is that really debatable?



    I took the spirit of the OP to be that in this hypothetical parallel history,
    blacks faced roughly the same levels of racism and contempt as other immigrant groups coming into the United States.


    History clearly shows that's not true.

  7. #127
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    blacks faced roughly the same levels of racism and contempt as other immigrant groups coming into the United States.
    History clearly shows that's not true.
    This morning's newspaper headlines about the Oklahoma frat boys getting caught singing about lynching blacks shows that's not true.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Clultural influences ? That are derived from Slavery ?

    How exactly ?
    More specifically, a lack of cultural influences. When someone immigrates to America by their own volition, they bring their own culture and past with them. It is something they can draw strength and pride from, and they often live in communities with other people of a similar background. They have their past to take pride in, and if they are interested in learning about it, so do their children. If you moved to another country to improve you and your families' prospects for the future, you would likely take deep pride in your country of origin. I'm guessing you're American. In a foreign country, surrounded by unfamiliar people, buildings, and languages, trying your best to hold down a job so you can feed your family, little things from home are very important to your morale. Celebrating a the Fourth of July with your family and a few other Americans in the area, a picture of yourself standing in front of the Washington Monument, a taste of your favorite American beer- any one of those things could be a nostalgic tie to your homeland, that you can hold in your heart when times get rough, and you think to yourself- "I'm gonna get through this. I won't let this get the best of me." And you can pass these cherished memories of your home down to your kids, who might also need something to take pride in if they face adversity.

    A slave has nothing but his memories. he can bring nothing with him to this strange new world he didn't choose to come to, and even his name is taken from him. He is left with nothing but stories and songs, but the chances that he will run into another slave that speaks the same language he does is low. The only tie of communication is a foreign language, one he likely lacks the words to translate the history of his people, or even himself with. He has nothing to offer to his children, if he even gets an opportunity to raise them himself. They are born slaves, and can be sold to another at any time, if their master so chooses. Once freed, slaves have nothing tying themselves together, save their history of oppression and similar appearances. Their last names are not even their own. They live in the destitution most would climb out of within a generation because they have nothing to draw courage from. To top it off, right when things start to look up for the blacks willing to rise above their ancestor's troubles, an entitlement culture is formed, leading to a stagnation of all they had been fighting to achieve.

    Nature abhors a vacuum, and learned helplessness is the most likely thing to fill the hole when culture is taken from an ethnic group, especially when coupled with the soft bigotry of low expectations.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're operating on the assumption that they or their ancestors would have all immigrated here at some point. There is absolutely no reason to assume this. African Americans currently constitute about 11% of the population last time I checked... how many are actual immigrants FROM Africa, or mostly descended from WILLING immigrants from Africa? From what I've seen, I doubt that number is even as high as 1 in 100. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that the vast majority would NOT have immigrated to America from Africa, therefore it is reasonable to assume the vast majority would still be in Africa.... inasumuch as there is ANYTHING resembling reason in this flight of fancy masquerading as a thread.
    The hypothetical question itself operates on the assumption that they or their ancestors would have all immigrated here at some point. Therefore, to address this question, we must also operate from that assumption.
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
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  10. #130
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    Re: Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    History clearly shows that's not true.
    Read what I wrote. More slowly this time.

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