View Poll Results: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

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Thread: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    At least rodeos have an origin based in a whole bunch of very necessary skillsets.
    Yes. Too bad the yahoos have wrecked it.

    There is no purpose to making elephants perform. Big cats, either.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  2. #82
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Rodeos are horrible. They're another classic example of people making animals do things they wouldn't normally do, all in the name of "entertainment". It isn't like teaching Spot to roll over for a cookie, either.
    At least Spot gets a cookie....

    I know some people who connect working dogs, from companion dogs, to kids' therapy dogs etc. They are being used extensively in childrens hospitals here especially cancer. And I know those dogs live for the pleasure and have had to 'babbysit' a golden lab who gets depressed when she can't "work"

    I have prayed to my God, if there are no dog's in heaven, I am simply not coming. You can punch out another man, maybe get away with beating on his old lady, but abuse a dog and I will go fatal on him
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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  3. #83
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yes, and you posted about PETA capturing Steve Asmussen's assistant trainer Scott Blasi acting improperly. You don't think I don't know all about that? And I would suggest a deep reading into the matter. Blasi was obnoxious - he wasn't cruel. Horses are bred to run. Elephants are not bred to balance on barrels. While I appreciate that you took the time to look up horse racing, there is zero correlation between what Blasi did to Zayat's horse and what has anything to do with the elephants. And horse racing itself isn't cruel. There are some bad people in it. There is no positive to elephants being used in circuses, regardless of whether they are tucked into bed by their trainers or attacked with whips.
    But that was my point, there are some good trainers and some bad trainers regardless of elephants or race horses. Yes horses are purposely bred to race. But the elephants in circuses were bred to be performers. They start their training very young. It's all they have known. Any animal in captivity being used for entertainment is being attacked as inhumane. From sea mammals to horses to elephants. I enjoy horse races, love to see the dolphin shows at Sea World and after centuries of elephants performing in circuses we are now told this is inhumane. Beating an animal, starving an animal, not providing shelter for an animal is inhumane.

  4. #84
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    The circus's decision to remove the elephants is no small matter -- it's a huge, huge, HUGE, decision .. obviously.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  5. #85
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    But that was my point, there are some good trainers and some bad trainers regardless of elephants or race horses. Yes horses are purposely bred to race. But the elephants in circuses were bred to be performers. They start their training very young. It's all they have known. Any animal in captivity being used for entertainment is being attacked as inhumane. From sea mammals to horses to elephants. I enjoy horse races, love to see the dolphin shows at Sea World and after centuries of elephants performing in circuses we are now told this is inhumane. Beating an animal, starving an animal, not providing shelter for an animal is inhumane.
    I know what your point was, and that isn't debatable. Yes, there are trainers who are cruel to elephants and then there are those who aren't. That's a fact. What's also a fact is that elephants shouldn't be trained for circus performance - period. There is no kindness to making them do what even the loving trainers make them do. By the very act, it's cruelty.

    I didn't say anything about Sea World? I don't even know anything about it. I know horse training very well. It isn't cruel to make a horse run. It's what they were bred to do. Elephants weren't meant to balance on their heads. It isn't natural. Horses running is natural. There is a very very big distinction.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  6. #86
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    I don't see any reason to disagree with their business decision. They can do what they want.

  7. #87
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    It isn't hyperbole. I've worked for them.
    I'm glad to see you've escaped.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #88
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I know what your point was, and that isn't debatable. Yes, there are trainers who are cruel to elephants and then there are those who aren't. That's a fact. What's also a fact is that elephants shouldn't be trained for circus performance - period. There is no kindness to making them do what even the loving trainers make them do. By the very act, it's cruelty.

    I didn't say anything about Sea World? I don't even know anything about it. I know horse training very well. It isn't cruel to make a horse run. It's what they were bred to do. Elephants weren't meant to balance on their heads. It isn't natural. Horses running is natural. There is a very very big distinction.
    I find the tricks they can train an elephant to do fascinating. It's sense of balance.....who knew an elephant could stand on a rolling barrel with all fours! Quite an amazing creature. I also find it fascinating how they can train a killer whale and dolphins as they do. It's like the trainer is so in tuned to the thinking of the creature and is inside its head. I do not see these acts as abuse anymore than cutting the gonads off a puppy to neuter him or clipping his ears or bobbing his tail to change his appearance.

    But there is a movement at this time going after all animals used for entertainment. And they are going after race horsing, Just read one the other day involving sulky racing. Sea World and places like it have been attacked as well. It isn't just the circus elephant. I guess what bothers me most about this movement is that they have fuzzied the line what animal abuse truly entails. If the sensitivities of a group is enough to ban anything, then we are in real trouble.

  9. #89
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I'm glad to see you've escaped.
    A long time ago. PETA has good intentions at its foundation, but it has become a caricature of legitimate animal rescue. And it's very close to being aptly called a terrorist organization too. Too bad, because they do a lot of good and have done a lot of good.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  10. #90
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I find the tricks they can train an elephant to do fascinating. It's sense of balance.....who knew an elephant could stand on a rolling barrel with all fours! Quite an amazing creature. I also find it fascinating how they can train a killer whale and dolphins as they do. It's like the trainer is so in tuned to the thinking of the creature and is inside its head. I do not see these acts as abuse anymore than cutting the gonads off a puppy to neuter him or clipping his ears or bobbing his tail to change his appearance.

    But there is a movement at this time going after all animals used for entertainment. And they are going after race horsing, Just read one the other day involving sulky racing. Sea World and places like it have been attacked as well. It isn't just the circus elephant. I guess what bothers me most about this movement is that they have fuzzied the line what animal abuse truly entails. If the sensitivities of a group is enough to ban anything, then we are in real trouble.
    PETA goes after everything from meat eating to fur wearing to people who crate their dogs. That doesn't make what happens to elephants and the cruelty that is their life any better or worse. The circus elephants were horrifically treated, and those that are in it still are. There are no positives to circus elephants for the elephants themselves.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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