View Poll Results: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

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    122 63.87%
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Thread: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So how is this response you're looking for supposed to appear to you exactly? Would you even know it when you saw it?
    Yes, I've been with many animals who are being neutered. I've never seen the signs that you have that lead me to believe they have processed it in their minds that they were just neutered. Sorry.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yes, I've been with many animals who are being neutered. I've never seen the signs that you have that lead me to believe they have processed it in their minds that they were just neutered. Sorry.
    Regardless, abusing an ignorant creature is not somehow justified because they're ignorant.

  3. #113
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Regardless, abusing an ignorant creature is not somehow justified because they're ignorant.
    If you want to debate that neutering is abuse, I think we need another thread. That doesn't have to do with this subject.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  4. #114
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yes, PTSD studies on the impact of their captivity for human entertainment. That's what her study was. That's what I was posting about (among other things that are wrong with it).

    Look, I'm not a preachy person and never try to overdo my feelings on issues on this board. I can't convince people about what I know, so I'll just continue working to eliminate elephants from being used for entertainment purposes, and not apologize for it.

    And I don't know if that last part was a dig at her or me or something else? I applaud the work of missionaries. I know humans are starving. I don't know if that's a reason to belittle people for caring about animals. This has somehow turned into the "people are bad for caring about animals while humans are starving" discussion I've been on the receiving end of too many times in my life, and that's when I know it's time for me to leave discussions before I get very upset at what is a slap to me.
    Tress her studies was not just on zoo and circus elephants but encompassed elephants that lost their parents during things like war and poaching in the wild.

    I wish everyone was caring toward animals. Only a SOB would be deliberately cruel to an animal. And when abuses are discovered, they should be reported and the person prosecuted. But the article you just posted shows clearly how out of perspective the issue has become. To me it is really scary to think because a group finds something offensive they have the power to ban it for all because they think they know what is best. Scary stuff.

  5. #115
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Tress her studies was not just on zoo and circus elephants but encompassed elephants that lost their parents during things like war and poaching in the wild.

    I wish everyone was caring toward animals. Only a SOB would be deliberately cruel to an animal. And when abuses are discovered, they should be reported and the person prosecuted. But the article you just posted shows clearly how out of perspective the issue has become. To me it is really scary to think because a group finds something offensive they have the power to ban it for all because they think they know what is best. Scary stuff.
    There are lot of studies out there. It's been studied for decades. There are no studies that show it is safe or wise to have a 5000 pound animal stand on its head. There are many that show that it's not safe and it's not wise. I know what she was studying but there was a lot of information in her detailed studies about circus elephants which we were talking about.

    If you have no issue with it, that's fine. I'd suggest taking a look sometime at the videos, the reports, the sanctuaries, and the real life elephants who came from circuses if you want to see it from the point of view that it isn't depriving humans of enjoyment.

    And yes, some people wanted to ban it because we actually knew it was for the best for the animals. The animals have no voice except those who care enough to speak. I'm the most non-Liberal person on this board on certain days, and I know it isn't "offensive" - it's cruel and it's wrong. That's why I want it banned. If someone misses out on taking his kid to the circus, that's a small price to pay.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Correct. And the performers are taken from their mothers years before they should be taken. And the babies are routinely traumatized in front of the older females, which not only hurts the babies, it horrifies the females who are by nature mothering types. Young female elephants hit puberty at age 10 and begin babysitting in the herds to practice for motherhood. I saw a baby getting whipped in front of a group of chained females who were screaming out in pain with him because they couldn't help him. It broke my heart.
    So sad.
    Just reading about what you saw breaks my heart.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  7. #117
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    There are lot of studies out there. It's been studied for decades. There are no studies that show it is safe or wise to have a 5000 pound animal stand on its head. There are many that show that it's not safe and it's not wise. I know what she was studying but there was a lot of information in her detailed studies about circus elephants which we were talking about.

    If you have no issue with it, that's fine. I'd suggest taking a look sometime at the videos, the reports, the sanctuaries, and the real life elephants who came from circuses if you want to see it from the point of view that it isn't depriving humans of enjoyment.

    And yes, some people wanted to ban it because we actually knew it was for the best for the animals. The animals have no voice except those who care enough to speak. I'm the most non-Liberal person on this board on certain days, and I know it isn't "offensive" - it's cruel and it's wrong. That's why I want it banned. If someone misses out on taking his kid to the circus, that's a small price to pay.
    I just watched a video of abuse on an elephant and it was greatly offensive. The person causing the abuse hopefully was charged. Where we differ is if a trainer, a good trainer can teach any animal to perform a trick, it takes a bond between the animal and the trainer. The trainer does not see teaching an animal tricks as abuse and takes offense at those who do. B&B has decided to remove the elephants from their show 1. due to the growing number of bans in cities that do not allow them due to activist groups and the costs involved in fighting the bans . And two, it takes a lot of money to provide passage for such large animals and care for them on the road. So the elephants are gone. What next? Lions or tigers? llamas or camels? Dogs and horses? No doubt the circus will look like it does to the North where they have removed all animal acts except humans. Cirque du Soleil even with no animals is still dogged with groups decrying unfit conditions for humans and from time to time you read of a fatality during a performance. So how long before they will be allowed to continue? For if someone is offended then it must be removed from society and banned. For it is their right to be able to feel good.

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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    If you want to debate that neutering is abuse, I think we need another thread. That doesn't have to do with this subject.
    Ok, fair enough.

  9. #119
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I just watched a video of abuse on an elephant and it was greatly offensive. The person causing the abuse hopefully was charged. Where we differ is if a trainer, a good trainer can teach any animal to perform a trick, it takes a bond between the animal and the trainer. The trainer does not see teaching an animal tricks as abuse and takes offense at those who do. B&B has decided to remove the elephants from their show 1. due to the growing number of bans in cities that do not allow them due to activist groups and the costs involved in fighting the bans . And two, it takes a lot of money to provide passage for such large animals and care for them on the road. So the elephants are gone. What next? Lions or tigers? llamas or camels? Dogs and horses? No doubt the circus will look like it does to the North where they have removed all animal acts except humans. Cirque du Soleil even with no animals is still dogged with groups decrying unfit conditions for humans and from time to time you read of a fatality during a performance. So how long before they will be allowed to continue? For if someone is offended then it must be removed from society and banned. For it is their right to be able to feel good.
    Yes, I am offended. By this:



    and this:



    and this:



    and this:



    and this:



    and this:

    Don't ever let the truth get in the way of good entertainment.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yes, I am offended. By this:



    and this:



    and this:



    and this:



    and this:



    and this:

    Don't ever let the truth get in the way of good entertainment.
    Morning Tres. Hope you had a super birthday. I understand your sensitivities. I apreciate your love for animals. There's a group of folks who find training any mammal to do tricks for entertainment purposes to be cruel. Whether it be elephants or teaching dogs to walk on their front legs and climb ladders or dance on their hind legs. There are activist groups currently going after every aspect of animals used in entertainment. Sea World, Circuses, dog shows, and horse racing seem to be the hot tickets at the moment. The NYT published a piece on the cruelity of horse racing. The investigated all the big races and discovered a very large number of horses die each year during events. Many seem to get a one way ticket to the glue factory after breaking a leg.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us...acks.html?_r=0

    Some folks find this appalling and want horse racing banned. Others want Sea World shut down. I have my sensitivities too. I find the practice of declawing a cat inhumane and I do think keeping a dog caged for 10 hours a day while the owner is at work, let out for a few hours then caged again at night very cruel. But pet owners do it all the time. My concern is the banning of things because of a group's sensitivities. It isn't just with animals, it has become an issue in all things.

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