View Poll Results: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

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Thread: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

  1. #101
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    And where, exactly, are these elephants going?
    Either I'm right or you're wrong.

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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I don't know of anyone who thinks it's cruel to neuter an animal.
    Ahem...

    Sorry, I don't see why people don't see that as cruel. We would never do that to a person, but we do it animals like it's no big thing.

    Then again, there is a lot of people that support castration of men.

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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I don't know of anyone who thinks it's cruel to neuter an animal. Especially when it's performed by a trained medical professional. PETA thinks crating dogs is cruel but there is also no scientific evidence to support that. There is scientific evidence to support the claims about elephants in circuses.
    Gee, I don't know, cutting the gonads off a critter in the name of animal control .......how would you like if someone was allowed to make that decision for you?

    Was it natural that the poor critter lose his balls?

    Scientific evidence on elephants? I would really like to read that got a link? Know who the studies were conducted by?

  4. #104
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Gee, I don't know, cutting the gonads off a critter in the name of animal control .......how would you like if someone was allowed to make that decision for you?

    Was it natural that the poor critter lose his balls?

    Scientific evidence on elephants? I would really like to read that got a link? Know who the studies were conducted by?
    Animals don't have the ability to reason, so they don't know that neutering them is a bad thing. And it's actually a good thing for them. So it's not cruel.

    Sure, here's a link to start. Let me know how many you want to see and I'll post more.

    http://www.elephants.com/joanna/Brad...r_PTSD-rev.pdf
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  5. #105
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I see training them to perform as the abuse......
    Right on, Bod...

    Early in my life I remember a TV show "Circus Boy", which starred Micky Dolenz (later known as one of the Monkey's band members). I mean I was a young kid - and somehow watching that show was disturbing to me. I couldn't really articulate what I was feeling when I saw the TV show.

    When my son was about 6 to 8 years old, which has been sometime ago. I took him to see this very circus perform in Dallas. I did it I guess because "he wanted to go" despite my not being all that thrilled about it. Prior to that I had not personally been to a circus.

    It took about 30 minutes into the circus performances for me to get my son and depart from that show. He said, "Why did we leave?"

    I said, "Most of the animals in that show are wild animals and shouldn't be made to travel across the country in small confining cages. They shouldn't be chained. They shouldn't be forced to spend hours a day by people who force them to do what they call "tricks" or "performance gimmicks" that are not at all common to their wild environments. They're being made into animal clowns."

    He said, "but dogs do tricks." I said, "Usually they are in environments that don't demand them to perform daily for a person or company's financial gain. And even dogs who are made to routinely perform...for somebody's financial gain. I'm also against

  6. #106
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Animals don't have the ability to reason, so they don't know that neutering them is a bad thing. And it's actually a good thing for them. So it's not cruel.
    I don't believe that. As someone that has been around animals his whole life I think animals do in fact have the ability to reason.

    Also, most grown men that were circumcised as newborns don't know it's a bad thing, and last time I checked they do have the ability to reason. They just don't know the difference and haven't done the proper research.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-09-15 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't believe that. As someone that has been around animals his whole life I think animals do in fact have the ability to reason.
    Okay. I've never known an animal to go under anesthesia knowing his nuts were coming off, and then after waking up saying "Damn, master, that was mean". Maybe you've met some who have. I don't know.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #108
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Okay. I've never known an animal to go under anesthesia knowing his nuts were coming off, and then after waking up saying "Damn, master, that was mean". Maybe you've met some who have. I don't know.
    So how is this response you're looking for supposed to appear to you exactly? Would you even know it when you saw it?

  9. #109
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Animals don't have the ability to reason, so they don't know that neutering them is a bad thing. And it's actually a good thing for them. So it's not cruel.

    Sure, here's a link to start. Let me know how many you want to see and I'll post more.

    http://www.elephants.com/joanna/Brad...r_PTSD-rev.pdf
    I read through the pdf, the author is basing her paper on her studies which she has written a book. This environmentalist, has written a book on PTSD of elephants.

    From Amazon

    "Wars, starvation, mass culls, poaching, and habitat loss have reduced elephant numbers from more than ten million to a few hundred thousand, leaving orphans bereft of the elders who would normally mentor them. As a consequence, traumatized elephants have become aggressive against people, other animals, and even one another; their behavior is comparable to that of humans who have experienced genocide, other types of violence, and social collapse. By exploring the elephant mind and experience in the wild and in captivity, Bradshaw bears witness to the breakdown of ancient elephant cultures.

    All is not lost. People are working to save elephants by rescuing orphaned infants and rehabilitating adult zoo and circus elephants, using the same principles psychologists apply in treating humans who have survived trauma. Bradshaw urges us to support these and other models of elephant recovery and to solve pressing social and environmental crises affecting all animals, human or not.

    -http://www.amazon.com/Elephants-Edge.../dp/0300167830-------------------------------------------
    This is clearly a person who does not approve of even zoos let alone circus animals. She is quite idealistic and urges others to support this particular rehabilitation center for elephants. Well this really puts it into perspective. I know of cases of people throughout this world through missionaries that struggle just to get enough to eat and clean water to drink. Another human being struggling just for the esentials to survive and this woman is concerned with the mental health of elephants. Thanks for sharing.

  10. #110
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    Re: Do You Support Ringling Bros' Decision To Remove Elephants From The Circus?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I read through the pdf, the author is basing her paper on her studies which she has written a book. This environmentalist, has written a book on PTSD of elephants.

    From Amazon

    "Wars, starvation, mass culls, poaching, and habitat loss have reduced elephant numbers from more than ten million to a few hundred thousand, leaving orphans bereft of the elders who would normally mentor them. As a consequence, traumatized elephants have become aggressive against people, other animals, and even one another; their behavior is comparable to that of humans who have experienced genocide, other types of violence, and social collapse. By exploring the elephant mind and experience in the wild and in captivity, Bradshaw bears witness to the breakdown of ancient elephant cultures.

    All is not lost. People are working to save elephants by rescuing orphaned infants and rehabilitating adult zoo and circus elephants, using the same principles psychologists apply in treating humans who have survived trauma. Bradshaw urges us to support these and other models of elephant recovery and to solve pressing social and environmental crises affecting all animals, human or not.

    -Elephants on the Edge: What Animals Teach Us about Humanity: G. A. Bradshaw: 9780300167832: Amazon.com: Books-------------------------------------------
    This is clearly a person who does not approve of even zoos let alone circus animals. She is quite idealistic and urges others to support this particular rehabilitation center for elephants. Well this really puts it into perspective. I know of cases of people throughout this world through missionaries that struggle just to get enough to eat and clean water to drink. Another human being struggling just for the esentials to survive and this woman is concerned with the mental health of elephants. Thanks for sharing.
    Yes, PTSD studies on the impact of their captivity for human entertainment. That's what her study was. That's what I was posting about (among other things that are wrong with it).

    Look, I'm not a preachy person and never try to overdo my feelings on issues on this board. I can't convince people about what I know, so I'll just continue working to eliminate elephants from being used for entertainment purposes, and not apologize for it.

    And I don't know if that last part was a dig at her or me or something else? I applaud the work of missionaries. I know humans are starving. I don't know if that's a reason to belittle people for caring about animals. This has somehow turned into the "people are bad for caring about animals while humans are starving" discussion I've been on the receiving end of too many times in my life, and that's when I know it's time for me to leave discussions before I get very upset at what is a slap to me.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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