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Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

  • Total voters
    31
Oozlefinch said:
I say we simply beat them into submission, killing any that do not immediately put their arms and surrender.

And any captured in the region, local or foreigner alike (including US and coalition citizens) be turned over to the local authorities to deal with as they would any other that was killing it's citizens.

I do not forgive murderers simply because of what countries they have lived in.
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I agree this but you are as aware as I am that many will ask for these people to be brought here to trial. Such show trials will cost millions and delays will be huge. Not even counting the ongoing security cost.

I don't see a "win" in our boots on the ground - ROE would hamper our troops, sympathisers and the deluded would protest that these people should be brought back here to face justice.

Then there is the "are they criminals or terrorists or foreign soldiers" argument. If they are criminals then "death on a battlefield scenario" opens up all sorts of criminal liability against our forces. If classed as foreign soldiers then would the geneva conventions apply? Could we hand them over to local forces and nations we know well might torture and kill them?

We haven't even gone near the "oh but they are innocent children" argument which I have seen on these forums..

I'm no sympathiser - I've had the arguments made against me in the past. I want none of these people back; their citizenship should be rescinded. We should support the Kurds so much more than we currently are, Turkey should be forced to act or removed from NATO and I certainly think drone strikes should be much more heavily used.
 
US Conservative said:
Damn straight. Send em to allah in style.
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The point is, they're not a special case. If they stand with the enemy, they are the enemy. We need to stop complicating the situation.
 
JANFU said:
Trials if they make it to trial are short and the sentence in quickly imposed.
One problem is the death sentences many would receive will cause an uproar with some in the west.
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And I really could not care less, to be honest.

They commit crimes in another country, they get what comes to them. Sorry but it frankly pisses me the hell off when people go overseas and break the law, then whine that they are not treated like they think they should be treated.

Maybe they should be happier if they had no appeal, and were simply marched out of the court room to the gallows?

Simple rule of thumb: If you go to another country, do not break the law!

ANd if you do break the law, do not expect to be patted on the fanny and let go because society was not fair to them.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I agree this but you are as aware as I am that many will ask for these people to be brought here to trial. Such show trials will cost millions and delays will be huge. Not even counting the ongoing security cost.
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And as I said, I could not care less.

To me this is just like any other crime comitted in another country.

I suppose the same morons would have insisted that William Walker be returned to the US for trial.
 
Oozlefinch said:
And I really could not care less, to be honest.

They commit crimes in another country, they get what comes to them. Sorry but it frankly pisses me the hell off when people go overseas and break the law, then whine that they are not treated like they think they should be treated.

Maybe they should be happier if they had no appeal, and were simply marched out of the court room to the gallows?

Simple rule of thumb: If you go to another country, do not break the law!

ANd if you do break the law, do not expect to be patted on the fanny and let go because society was not fair to them.
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I did not disagree, I only brought forwards what we would see.
 
it's preferable they die on the battlefield for their cause ( it surely simplifies the question of what to do with them)

if they happen to get caught alive... trying them for high treason works too.
 
Top Cat said:
The WA Times is a whack job right wing jackoff site. And Rickards is a loon. Surely you can do better than this?
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She said it. Its on video. Lots of commentators responded. She said we not only couldn't win this war, but that they needed jobs.

The left is like an over easy egg on terrorists.
 
US Conservative said:
She said it. Its on video. Lots of commentators responded. She said we not only couldn't win this war, but that they needed jobs.

The left is like an over easy egg on terrorists.
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You are delusional and all you have is out of context whack job righties to quote.
 
1) I don't care about the U.S.'s terrorist list...mean almost nothing to me. I don't trust the U.S. government AT ALL so I sure as shoot do not trust her lists.

2) ISIS to me is more an army then a terrorist group. A barbaric army, but an army. And America has not declared war on ISIS (the nonsensical 'War On Terror' does not count). So, technically, I don't see that an American fighting for ISIS is breaking any American laws. At least laws that I know of AND agree with.

3) However, as ISIS is clearly barbaric and clearly is extremely hostile to the United States, you cannot just let this American-who-fought-for-ISIS back into the country when the fighting is over as he must be considered a huge threat to peace.

So, I would give him a choice when he comes back; a) he can never come back; or b) he is considered an enemy combatant and put on trial for any crimes he committed against Americans or against humanity while fighting for ISIS. Once this trial is over, if his jail sentence ends (or he is found innocent), then he must prove to psychiatrists that he is no threat to Americans. And the onus is on him to prove himself - on this he is considered guilty until proved innocent psychologically.
Only then could he theoretically be let back into American society.

There is no way you are convincing me that every, single person who is fighting for ISIS is some blood-thirsty terrorist. I am quite sure many of them are fighting for a cause they feel is just. They are soldiers fighting in a war.
Not all soldiers for barbaric armies are terrible people.
Look at Nazi Germany. Millions fought for that barbaric regime. Yet, the vast minority were not actually Nazis or agreed with the terrible treatment of the Jews/others even though many claim to not know of the gas chambers until after the war. The same with the Japanese during WW2. People can be brainwashed by governments. That does not mean they are all bad.
And I highly doubt every ISIS fighter is all bad...just desperate and/or brainwashed.
And if you are going to call ISIS barbaric (and I would), then you have to do the same for the Saudi Royal family as they run a country that beheads FAR more people then ISIS does - often for trivial matters. They reduce women to virtual slaves and are a barbaric regime...but the West supports them.


Finally, if America would stop being so gutless and actually would declare war on the countries/organizations she goes to war with, it would make things easier. Just declare war, go full guns to destroy them, occupy them until free elections can be held and then leave. This half-assed nonsense does no one any good.
I think America should mind her own business when it comes to the Middle East...but if she is going to war - do it right or do not do it at all.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Yes, and out of the other side of your mouth, along with other liberals, you're bitching that Gitmo is a recruiting tool for Islamic extremists and should be closed.
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No I most certainly am not. Gitmo however should do more to diffuse the extremists beliefs of these terrorists
 
If they can be killed there, that should be done. They went there to kill people, let them get what they deserve. :roll:



"What goes around,comes around."
 
shrubnose said:
If they can be killed there, that should be done. They went there to kill people, let them get what they deserve. :roll:



"What goes around,comes around."
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If the choice is between killing them and letting them walk free, of course they must be slaughtered. If the choice is between killing them and imprisoning them, of course we imprison them. Descending to their filth will not win the battle.
 
dmvpolitical said:
If the choice is between killing them and letting them walk free, of course they must be slaughtered. If the choice is between killing them and imprisoning them, of course we imprison them.
Descending to their filth will not win the battle.
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Who suggested descending to their filth? Fill us in. :roll:
 
I am no Pope Francis, nor am I highly educated nor have all the nice facilities ....
Thus .. considering what ISIS has done and will do, makes them more than simply misguided .. they are EVIL .. Those who try to return are, better off dead and should not be given anything, much less a fair trial .. I know this is not right .. but there are limits to tolerance.
 
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