View Poll Results: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

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  • Better Dead

    26 32.91%
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    24 30.38%
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Thread: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

  1. #41
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I feel that we as a society, if the opportunity presents itself, should hold these folks accountable for their actions but I certainly would not risk any lives to intentionally try and capture any of them.
    And I have no problem with that. We are not murderers who kill everybody just because we can.

    But they should not be brought to the US and tried under our laws. Leave them where they were captured, and let that country try them. After all, that is where their crimes were committed.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Yet another person dishonestly distorting the "jobs" comment for political hay. Pathetic.
    Kobie, we all heard president estrogen's spokeswoman make that comment.

  3. #43
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Kobie, we all heard president estrogen's spokeswoman make that comment.
    And you've lied about it ever since.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  4. #44
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Think it through - who will go capture them for you?
    Our military, other countries militaries, rebel forces, etc.

    How expendable do you think your country's security people are and the legality (and practicality) of sending small groups of western boots into such a zone to capture these people?
    Saying that we are currently doing that...

    I read another poster on another thread talking of hunting these people down - again this brings in the problems we have legally / logistically and practically of hunting western jihadis down in Syria / Iraq / Somalia etc.
    I never said we should be "actively hunting them down".



    Why should we let them back in - willingly or not? We already know ISIS and similar groups want some of their operatives to come and create havoc here so why should we help ISIS with this?
    So they can face a trial instead of just dropping a cruise missile on their heads.


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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    And you've lied about it ever since.
    Kobie, I dont lie. We heard the words. You make excuses.

  6. #46
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Kobie, I dont lie. We heard the words. You make excuses.
    You heard the words and deliberately misrepresent them.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  7. #47
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Our military, other countries militaries, rebel forces, etc.
    You are aware of the political cost of putting our militaries into the Middle East to track down Western jihadis? Then if we put our troops on the ground - what kind of ROE do you support or suppose we would have?

    Bearing in mind the first captured soldier beheaded on video will have a drastic effect on public support.. As for other countries militaries - who are they and how would we work with them? Some of these countries may be the kind to ignore western conventions like Geneva Codes. I know my position but what is yours? You are highly unlikely to find Jordan's military capturing and transporting ISIS fugitives in ways that would satisfy some quarters here in the west.

    As for rebel forces - why would we limit their ability to move quickly and fight by labouring them with live prisoners to safeguard back to our forces?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    -- Saying that we are currently doing that...
    Link and specifics?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I never said we should be "actively hunting them down".
    I know, it was another poster but the end result is the same. If you demand these people are brought to justice then somehow you have to go and get them, capture them and bring them back. Or - just leave a wide open door at home for their return so they can "face trial instead of having cruise missiles dropped on their heads..."

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So they can face a trial instead of just dropping a cruise missile on their heads.
    So you are happy for our over stretched security forces (facing cuts across Europe) to have to pick this up instead? The "open door to jihadi's" approach is not a good one I can tell you.

  8. #48
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So they can face a trial instead of just dropping a cruise missile on their heads.
    Sorry, I am not a policeman. It is not my job to capture bad guys to put them on trial.

    I am a soldier, and it is my job to protect others, and to kill those who try to harm others. Now if they surrender I will take them prisoner. But I am not going out to "capture" them, not my job.

    If they are a threat, I say drop a cruise missile on their heads. I guess you do not comprehend what a war is.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  9. #49
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    You are aware of the political cost of putting our militaries into the Middle East to track down Western jihadis? Then if we put our troops on the ground - what kind of ROE do you support or suppose we would have?
    I say we simply beat them into submission, killing any that do not immediately put their arms and surrender.

    And any captured in the region, local or foreigner alike (including US and coalition citizens) be turned over to the local authorities to deal with as they would any other that was killing it's citizens.

    I do not forgive murderers simply because of what countries they have lived in.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  10. #50
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    And I have no problem with that. We are not murderers who kill everybody just because we can.

    But they should not be brought to the US and tried under our laws. Leave them where they were captured, and let that country try them. After all, that is where their crimes were committed.
    Trials if they make it to trial are short and the sentence in quickly imposed.
    One problem is the death sentences many would receive will cause an uproar with some in the west.

    Not the best comparison, but best I could do.


    Australia complains over Indonesia's treatment of death row prisoners | Reuters


    Australia complains over Indonesia's treatment of death row prisoners

    By Lincoln Feast and Eveline Danubrata

    SYDNEY/JAKARTA Fri Mar 6, 2015 2:07am EST

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    Australians Andrew Chan (L) and Myuran Sukumaran wait in a temporary cell for their appeal hearing in Denpasar District Court in Indonesia's resort island of Bali in this September 21, 2010 file photo. REUTERS/Murdani Usman/Files

    Australians Andrew Chan (L) and Myuran Sukumaran wait in a temporary cell for their appeal hearing in Denpasar District Court in Indonesia's resort island of Bali in this September 21, 2010 file photo.

    Credit: Reuters/Murdani Usman/Files

    (Reuters) - Australia has complained about the treatment of two drug smugglers, who face execution in Indonesia, and wants to lodge a formal protest after a smiling Indonesian police chief was photographed posing with the men, officials said on Friday.

    The planned executions of Myuran Sukumaran, 33, and Andrew Chan, 31, have ramped up diplomatic tension between Australia and Indonesia after repeated pleas for mercy on their behalf. They are among a group of up to 11 convicts, mostly foreigners, due to be executed on the prison island of Nusakambangan.
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