View Poll Results: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

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  • Better Dead

    26 32.91%
  • Better Facing Persecution Back Home

    24 30.38%
  • I do not know/care

    29 36.71%
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Thread: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

  1. #31
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    If an American went to Iran to fight with the Kurds against ISIS, is that illegal?
    I can't speak for your Laws but i can tell you that an Australian (Ashley Johnston) was killed a week or so ago fighting Islamic State alongside Kurds. Under Australian Law, he died a criminal.
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    I can't speak for your Laws but i can tell you that an Australian (Ashley Johnston) was killed a week or so ago fighting Islamic State alongside Kurds. Under Australian Law, he died a criminal.
    What's your view on that?
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  3. #33
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    I can't speak for your Laws but i can tell you that an Australian (Ashley Johnston) was killed a week or so ago fighting Islamic State alongside Kurds. Under Australian Law, he died a criminal.
    I'm sorry to hear that. Did he seek permission from the Australian government to do so before he joined the Kurds?

    During the Vietnam war, as an example, many Canadians received permission from the Canadian government to join US forces fighting a war that Canada was not part of and when they returned after the Vietnam war ended they were welcomed back into the country without problem.

    Iraq is a bit of a different problem. I don't think the Kurdish Peshmerga forces are recognized as legitimate by the central Iraqi government and are not controlled by the Iraqi forces or government so that might be seen as joining a militia. And if Australia is participating in the coalition efforts to fight ISIS, it might be a problem that Mr. Johnston didn't join the Australian forces to help the Kurds.

    In any event, Mr. Johnston died in a noble cause and he should be honored and respected for such.
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Kill them. IF any are captured they should be "accidentally given to Iraqi government forces".

  5. #35
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    I wanted to know what DebatePolitics thinks, are western fighters for ISIS better of dead in the Middle East or should they face persecution back home? I can personally understand both positions and am torn between them.
    My own beliefs are pretty simple and brutal. Kill them over there.

    This is a war, not law enforcement. If somebody goes over to the enemy and takes up arms for their cause, then they are no different then anybody else. And they should be treated as any other enemy combatant on the battlefield. Bullet in the head and move on out.

    We had Americans and people from other nations join the opponant from the beginning of our country. In the Civil War many from both North and South went to fight ffor the other side for philosophical reasons. Many Americans joined both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. This is nothing new, and I have no problem with it.

    But if somebody does so, they should not expect to be treated any differently then those they are fighting for. If that means getting shot up in a battlefield or attacked by an aircraft, then so freaking be it. Just as we often have people who leave their nation and fight for us. They are following their beliefs, and should be treated just like anybody else on our side who puts on a uniform.

    We are not cops, we are soldiers. Shoot them all, let God sort them out. This recent concept of "arresting" enemy combatants and putting them on trial to me is absolute nonsense. If an airstrike called in lands and blows up a car full of ISIS fighters from Syria or Iraq, or ISIS fighters from Canada and the US I really could not care less. All are the enemy to me and I will not shead any tears because they were born or lived in the same country as I do or one that is an ally. They made their choices, they are then answering for those choices.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    Kill them. IF any are captured they should be "accidentally given to Iraqi government forces".
    Hell, to me there should be nothing accidental about it.

    They are in Iraq (or Syria, or Egypt, or Libya) and committing crimes over there and killing their citizens, let them deal with them as the murderers they are. WTF could we charge them with really, passport fraud?

    This bringing such people to the US or another country is pure nonsense.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    Kill them. IF any are captured they should be "accidentally given to Iraqi government forces".
    Hell, let me even flip this around and see what the reaction would be.

    If somebody from Grand Fenwick came over here and shot an American to death, should we simply smile and say "Oh yes, we are turning him over to you for justice back home, take him Grand Fenwick and handle him under your own legal system"?

    Hell no, we would tell them to go pound sand and have a trial under our own legal system, where the crime happened.

    So why in the hell should we treat these people any different?

    I have no more pitty for them then I do some drug runner who gets caught with a pound of grass in a country that punishes such crimes by death. They are not in the US, they should have absolutely no illusion that they are protected by it's legal system. They are in a country where crimes such as killing civilians and blowing up schools is handled with a short trial and a prison sentence that ends with either a rope or sword.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Not such a simple legal question. There is no declared state-of-war between the USA and ISIS. Does the USA even formally acknowledge that ISIS exists?

    Americans historically have fought for other militaries, other countries and other organizations from the past (such as the Flying Tigers for China) to various mercenary ventures and for other countries. People who are citizens of other countries can enlist in our military and that isn't all that rare.

    So... if someone goes to Syrian to fight against the Syrian government or against the Syrian rebels, or goes to join ISIS to fight against the Kurds or Iranians, what crime was committed against the USA?

    If an American went to Iran to fight with the Kurds against ISIS, is that illegal?
    I think you may be making too much of it. This is not cops and robbers, but war--and against people who flagrantly ignore all the rules of war. The goal should be to kill as many of them as possible, as fast as is practical, regardless of what nationality they claim. If the U.S. took this seriously for the war it is, it would long ago have bombed every facility of any kind in northern Syria and Iraq that could be of any military use to these people. And it would not have let punctilious fretting about civilian casualties hinder its efforts.

    There is a federal law that makes a crime of seditious conspiracy, and it has been used in prosecuting some Muslim jihadists here. Its standards are less demanding than with the federal crime of treason, which makes it easier to get convictions. And the maximum sentence is twenty years. There is also the option of prosecuting these bastards in military tribunals, where they would have no right to a jury or to a grand jury indictment. But don't look for anything so harsh under President Limpwrist--he wants to get the SOB's jobs.

  9. #39
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    I feel that we as a society, if the opportunity presents itself, should hold these folks accountable for their actions but I certainly would not risk any lives to intentionally try and capture any of them.

    Anyone, who knowingly travels abroad and was impressed or coerced by the Islamic States propaganda is clearly someone who we don't want in society.

    End of story.

    You go abroad to join a group such as that, you have given up your right to be treated as an equal citizen.

  10. #40
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    Re: Are Western Fighters Who Join ISIS Better Dead or Facing Trial Back Home?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I think you may be making too much of it. This is not cops and robbers, but war--and against people who flagrantly ignore all the rules of war. The goal should be to kill as many of them as possible, as fast as is practical, regardless of what nationality they claim. If the U.S. took this seriously for the war it is, it would long ago have bombed every facility of any kind in northern Syria and Iraq that could be of any military use to these people. And it would not have let punctilious fretting about civilian casualties hinder its efforts.

    There is a federal law that makes a crime of seditious conspiracy, and it has been used in prosecuting some Muslim jihadists here. Its standards are less demanding than with the federal crime of treason, which makes it easier to get convictions. And the maximum sentence is twenty years. There is also the option of prosecuting these bastards in military tribunals, where they would have no right to a jury or to a grand jury indictment. But don't look for anything so harsh under President Limpwrist--he wants to get the SOB's jobs.
    Yet another person dishonestly distorting the "jobs" comment for political hay. Pathetic.
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