View Poll Results: Is it really sovereign?

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  • Yes, It is

    102 96.23%
  • No, it is not

    4 3.77%
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Thread: The Sovereignty of USA

  1. #51
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I have to bite my tongue in my "real life" when my non-American friends start saying **** about our President - any President of any party - or our lawmakers, period. While I'm a fan of relations between countries and all of that, I also draw the line somewhere. On here I'm more open to what non-Americans say about us because that's in the spirit of the board.
    LOL yeah I hear you on that. As a lazy expat I spend a lot of time drinking with my buddies in bars and pubs and we get into it when it comes to politics. I normally criticize the US government and what its been doing but if a foreigner comes over and starts dissing my country I will let him have it even though the last president I liked was Bill Clinton. When W was president one Norwegian guy came over to our table and started dissing the US with our wars and I fired back even though I hated W. I guess thats just the way it goes: you can criticize your country as a local but when a foreigner tells you how it should be run you circle the wagons.

  2. #52
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    It is common for a U.S. President to make outright demands of foreign nations, either under threat of military threat and\or financial sanction, and yet somehow it's not OK for a foreign politician to come to the U.S. and make a sales pitch?

    At least this is out in the open, rather than just a sack of money and a wink for a congressperson.

    I disagree with Netanyahu's position on Iran, but it would simply be wrong for us not to allow him to come and argue his case.

  3. #53
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I have to bite my tongue in my "real life" when my non-American friends start saying **** about our President - any President of any party - or our lawmakers, period. While I'm a fan of relations between countries and all of that, I also draw the line somewhere. On here I'm more open to what non-Americans say about us because that's in the spirit of the board.

    I also can't stand Obama (I won't use the word hate) but I agree that it's not right for a foreigner to come into his house and criticize him. I was thinking about this last night. I'm a manager of a sales team. I realize that it would really, really bother me if my team went behind my back and invited someone to come speak to them and in the speech, that someone criticized me. I would be mad at my team for that. I think Obama should be mad.

    That said, that doesn't mean I agree with the way Obama is handling Iran, and I don't agree with the people who say Israel should be left unprotected or whatever, but from Obama's POV, I'd be pretty pissed.
    Which is cool. You don't have to agree with Obama, or disagree with Netanyahu, to not like what happened in America on Monday. I appreciate your position on this!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #54
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    It is common for a U.S. President to make outright demands of foreign nations, either under threat of military threat and\or financial sanction, and yet somehow it's not OK for a foreign politician to come to the U.S. and make a sales pitch?

    At least this is out in the open, rather than just a sack of money and a wink for a congressperson.

    I disagree with Netanyahu's position on Iran, but it would simply be wrong for us not to allow him to come and argue his case.
    No, it wouldn't. He can and has argued his case on Iran from Israel, for twenty five years now, and he's been repetitively WRONG. he didn't need to be here lying about our president to the chagrin of our congress.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #55
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    It is common for a U.S. President to make outright demands of foreign nations, either under threat of military threat and\or financial sanction, and yet somehow it's not OK for a foreign politician to come to the U.S. and make a sales pitch?

    At least this is out in the open, rather than just a sack of money and a wink for a congressperson.

    I disagree with Netanyahu's position on Iran, but it would simply be wrong for us not to allow him to come and argue his case.
    Can you cite me a single instance in which a US president came into the seat of government of a foreign country and told the politicians there on how to run their country while not being invited by the head of state?

  6. #56
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No, it wouldn't. He can and has argued his case on Iran from Israel, for twenty five years now, and he's been repetitively WRONG. he didn't need to be here lying about our president to the chagrin of our congress.
    I'll admit I haven't watched his speech or read a transcript, but I hadn't heard he lied about Obama. I guess I'll pick through it, but if you wanted to detail the lie, I'd appreciate it.

    My point is that it's part of the business for politicians to lobby each other. I much rather it be done in the open than behind the scenes. It's not like Israel isn't outright paying to help Congress folk to get reelected, anyhow.

  7. #57
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    I'll admit I haven't watched his speech or read a transcript, but I hadn't heard he lied about Obama. I guess I'll pick through it, but if you wanted to detail the lie, I'd appreciate it.

    My point is that it's part of the business for politicians to lobby each other. I much rather it be done in the open than behind the scenes. It's not like Israel isn't outright paying to help Congress folk to get reelected, anyhow.
    Yes he did. He said, "not only does the presidents deal not prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, IT PAVES THE WAY"!!!!! He should have been booed out and told not to return.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #58
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes he did. He said, "not only does the presidents deal not prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, IT PAVES THE WAY"!!!!! He should have been booed out and told not to return.
    That's not a lie. He's correct.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  9. #59
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Can you cite me a single instance in which a US president came into the seat of government of a foreign country and told the politicians there on how to run their country while not being invited by the head of state?
    None leap to mind, but that's not what I said. If Netanyahu had made his speech on television from Israel, would that resolve your issue? If so, we're just talking about different things.

    It would be foolish to make demands of an enemy nation on their soil, but no such restriction applies here. Israel is our ally, whether we agree on specific topics or not.

    If Iran's leadership came to the U.S., there would be calls for us to arrest them.

    Reagan publicly demanded Russia destroy the Berlin Wall, Kennedy demanded they remove the missiles from Cuba, and made speeches in West Germany, Bush demanded Iraq leave Kuwait. No one thought that was inappropriate.
    Last edited by WillyPete; 03-05-15 at 10:47 AM.

  10. #60
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    Re: The Sovereignty of USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes he did. He said, "not only does the presidents deal not prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, IT PAVES THE WAY"!!!!! He should have been booed out and told not to return.
    Unless someone can predict the future with 100% certainty, that's hard to know.

    Do we even have the details of the deal? My impression is they agree to cease their programs for a time, we cooperate on ISIS, and then ?

    I would hope such cooperation would lead to future agreements, but it's far from clear. Maybe the whole thing goes badly, and things become worse than ever.

    Netanyahu's language and position are extreme, but it's not a demonstrable lie. I don't have a problem with him making his pitch to Congress or the American people.

    He's likely already accomplished his goal, by yanking Iran's chain during the negotiations.

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