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The Sovereignty of USA

Is it really sovereign?

  • Yes, It is

    Votes: 22 88.0%

  • No, it is not

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • Total voters
    25
polgara said:
Greetings, tres borrachos. :2wave:

Who knows? They need to have a reason to be offended by his visit, I guess, but he was invited to come!
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Howdy Polgara. The elections weren't the only thing on Netanyahu's mind, to be sure. But they damn sure were a part of it. Thankfully though, the anticipated gains didn't come through. You're correct that he was invited, and as such that he did nothing wrong. Oh sure, we might have hoped that he'd have had the temerity to decline the opportunity to come to America, stand in the halls of congress and accuse the American president of "paving Iran's way to a nuclear weapon" but it would have only further frustrated the frustrated. And obviously, his preface aside, that sweet juicy peach was too irresistible.



Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s address to Congress helped bring about a modest boost for his Likud party, according to polls sponsored by Channels 2 and 10 that were broadcast Wednesday night.

Hopes in the Likud for a major gain and in the Zionist Union for no change at all were both quashed.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-Electio...ress-speech-find-slight-gain-for-Likud-392963
 
PoS said:
First time Ive seen a foreigner get so many standing ovations from US Congressmen in defiance of the president. Its disturbing just how much influence Isreal has over our country when so many of our politicians bow down to Bibi as if he was the President rather than Obama.
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So it's OK for a foreigner to come here and disparage the President, in America, but when the President is disparaged in front of foreigners on their own soil - that makes it OK?
 
PoS said:
First time Ive seen a foreigner get so many standing ovations from US Congressmen in defiance of the president. Its disturbing just how much influence Isreal has over our country when so many of our politicians bow down to Bibi as if he was the President rather than Obama.
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Hell, just a few months ago they'd have applauded like that for Putin.
 
Superfly said:
So it's OK for a foreigner to come here and disparage the President, in America, but when the President is disparaged in front of foreigners on their own soil - that makes it OK?
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I think you misinterpreted his post. i don't think he said that at all.
 
tres borrachos said:
I think you misinterpreted his post. i don't think he said that at all.
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Wasn't really responding to the OP with my question, but more commenting on what Monte and PoS said - that it seems OK to allow others to come here and disparage a sitting President. That begged the question from me, of why it was OK to allow that to happen, but if someone did it on foreign soil, it wouldn't be OK.

Montecresto said:
Probably because it was a republican controlled congress, attempting to humiliate a democratic president. What hypocrisy. You'd never put up with a democratically controlled congress seeking foreign answers to US foreign policy.
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PoS said:
First time Ive seen a foreigner get so many standing ovations from US Congressmen in defiance of the president. Its disturbing just how much influence Isreal has over our country when so many of our politicians bow down to Bibi as if he was the President rather than Obama.
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Superfly said:
Wasn't really responding to the OP with my question, but more commenting on what Monte and PoS said - that it seems OK to allow others to come here and disparage a sitting President. That begged the question from me, of why it was OK to allow that to happen, but if someone did it on foreign soil, it wouldn't be OK.
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But I don't see that POS ever said that. He didn't seem to think it was okay at all. To me his post was a display of his disgust towards Congress for cheering the PM of Israel for criticizing our President. Monte didn't either seem to think it was okay either. Just how I read their posts.

Maybe I just didn't understand how their posts were a segue to your question.
 
Superfly said:
Wasn't really responding to the OP with my question, but more commenting on what Monte and PoS said - that it seems OK to allow others to come here and disparage a sitting President. That begged the question from me, of why it was OK to allow that to happen, but if someone did it on foreign soil, it wouldn't be OK.
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We'll wait for PoS to explain himself, but like tb, I think you misunderstand him. For myself, to the bolded in your post, I don't think that?!?!?!
 
joG said:
Is that the way you see it? Funny. I think it a very sovereign thing to do, for the Legislative to bring in a foreign head of government to listen to his take on a problem facing us. I think it could be a good precedent.
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Really? "America needs to send more blood and treasure to attack the Muslims who pose NO threat to American sovereignty!!!!"
 
We can't forget that some of our conservative Christian politicians want to get armageddon going as soon as possible, so its not surprising that they love a war-mongering politician from the muddle east. Perhaps we should stop pretending and make Israel a state. (although someone will have to write an exception to the first amendment so that it can remain a theocracy)
 
Montecresto said:
We'll wait for PoS to explain himself, but like tb, I think you misunderstand him. For myself, to the bolded in your post, I don't think that?!?!?!
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No, no - I don't think you feel that way.

Now, I could be wrong, as I was once before, but I got the impression that you, and PoS, were both against Netanyahu coming here, disparaging Obama. I, too, am against this, and am also against Congress cheering his doing so.

My question was why it was OK for a foreigner to come to America and talk badly about a President, but it was not ok for an American to go to a foreign country and talk badly about the President.

It just seems like a double standard to me.
 
Superfly said:
No, no - I don't think you feel that way.

Now, I could be wrong, as I was once before, but I got the impression that you, and PoS, were both against Netanyahu coming here, disparaging Obama. I, too, am against this, and am also against Congress cheering his doing so.

My question was why it was OK for a foreigner to come to America and talk badly about a President, but it was not ok for an American to go to a foreign country and talk badly about the President.

It just seems like a double standard to me.
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I don't know that either are good, but I certainly consider it a vastly worse crime for congress to invite a foreigner to their halls, and then drool all over him as he ridicules our presidents foreign policy. I think that that is sick, and hope dearly that this doesn't get repeated by another congress.
 
Montecresto said:
Thats the point. Republicans hate Obama so much that they're ok with this freak coming to America to tell us what to do.
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Your messages on the forum do indicate that is your opinion of Jews.
 
Superfly said:
So it's OK for a foreigner to come here and disparage the President, in America, but when the President is disparaged in front of foreigners on their own soil - that makes it OK?
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Im all for free speech but I think its disrespectful for a foreigner to be invited into congress by American politicians to disparage the president. I have nothing against American politicians disparaging the president- but to invite a foreigner into Congress to do that against the wishes of the POTUS borders on treason.

For the record, I hate Obama, I think he is one of the worst presidents ever. But with that being said he is the president and therefore the chief diplomat and commander in chief for our country. When it comes to foreign relations he is in charge of that and despite my dislike for him I am loyal to him ahead of any foreign dignitary and he should not be criticized by any foreigner in our own house of government- no other country would allow that to happen to their head of state in their own seat of government yet thats what Boner and his allies did.
 
PoS said:
Im all for free speech but I think its disrespectful for a foreigner to be invited into congress by American politicians to disparage the president. I have nothing against American politicians disparaging the president- but to invite a foreigner into Congress to do that against the wishes of the POTUS borders on treason.

For the record, I hate Obama, I think he is one of the worst presidents ever. But with that being said he is the president and therefore the chief diplomat and commander in chief for our country. When it comes to foreign relations he is in charge of that and despite my dislike for him I am loyal to him ahead of any foreign dignitary and he should not be criticized by any foreigner in our own house of government- no other country would allow that to happen to their head of state in their own seat of government yet thats what Boner and his allies did.
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So you were equally as pissed when the Dixie Chicks did this to Bush? That's the whole point I was getting at here. That several on the right seem to be cheering on Netanyahu for disparaging Obama, but those same people were jumping up and down, burning Dixie Chicks CDs when they spoke against Bush in Europe. Just seems like a double standard is all I am getting at, and I am not accusing you or Monte of doing this. Not at all. Quite the contrary, actually.
 
Superfly said:
So you were equally as pissed when the Dixie Chicks did this to Bush? That's the whole point I was getting at here. That several on the right seem to be cheering on Netanyahu for disparaging Obama, but those same people were jumping up and down, burning Dixie Chicks CDs when they spoke against Bush in Europe. Just seems like a double standard is all I am getting at, and I am not accusing you or Monte of doing this. Not at all. Quite the contrary, actually.
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If the Dixie chicks were invited into congress to disparage Bush and was given a standing ovation I would be slightly peeved by it but they are citizens of the US so in my view its fine. What is disturbing to me about Bibi's speech was that he was a foreign head of state who did it and it was done by invitation by Obama's political enemies.
 
Montecresto said:
Yep.

Under the interim deal that brought Iran to the table, he (Obama) explained, the United States is not supposed to initiate any new sanctions. While the bill would technically simply set a timeline for new sanctions, "I assure you that is not how Iran would interpret it," Mr. Obama said.
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If we are going to complain about a foreign leaders telling our congress what to support and not support then we should complain about both sides doing it.
 
jamesrage said:
If we are going to complain about a foreign leaders telling our congress what to support and not support then we should complain about both sides doing it.
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I will. And don't want to see either side doing this.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Really? "America needs to send more blood and treasure to attack the Muslims who pose NO threat to American sovereignty!!!!"
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Possibly. But that was not the topic. The question was, whether it is a sovereign act for Congress to ask a foreign head of government to speak and not about whether you want to allow someone to say something you don't want to hear.
 
PoS said:
Im all for free speech but I think its disrespectful for a foreigner to be invited into congress by American politicians to disparage the president. I have nothing against American politicians disparaging the president- but to invite a foreigner into Congress to do that against the wishes of the POTUS borders on treason.

For the record, I hate Obama, I think he is one of the worst presidents ever. But with that being said he is the president and therefore the chief diplomat and commander in chief for our country. When it comes to foreign relations he is in charge of that and despite my dislike for him I am loyal to him ahead of any foreign dignitary and he should not be criticized by any foreigner in our own house of government- no other country would allow that to happen to their head of state in their own seat of government yet thats what Boner and his allies did.
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I have to bite my tongue in my "real life" when my non-American friends start saying **** about our President - any President of any party - or our lawmakers, period. While I'm a fan of relations between countries and all of that, I also draw the line somewhere. On here I'm more open to what non-Americans say about us because that's in the spirit of the board.

I also can't stand Obama (I won't use the word hate) but I agree that it's not right for a foreigner to come into his house and criticize him. I was thinking about this last night. I'm a manager of a sales team. I realize that it would really, really bother me if my team went behind my back and invited someone to come speak to them and in the speech, that someone criticized me. I would be mad at my team for that. I think Obama should be mad.

That said, that doesn't mean I agree with the way Obama is handling Iran, and I don't agree with the people who say Israel should be left unprotected or whatever, but from Obama's POV, I'd be pretty pissed.
 
If that was done due to the hate towards Obama, I think there is some serious problems in USA poitics and among politicians; Moreover, Treason is not far away from the minds of many in the current congress.

That is the weakest point of USA noted after this event.
 
joG said:
Is that the way you see it? Funny. I think it a very sovereign thing to do, for the Legislative to bring in a foreign head of government to listen to his take on a problem facing us. I think it could be a good precedent.
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Oh, come on now. So Netanyahu had to come all the way from Israel just to tell Congress what he has been telling everyone for roughly 20 years about Iran's nuclear program?
And even if what he was saying was new, surely Congress reads/listens to the news. They would have heard it when he said it in Israel. This is not 1915...politicians do not need to travel to Congress to state their cases...all they have to do is state it at home to the media and instantly it will be freely available to every politician.

I find it hard to believe that you honestly think that the number one reason why Boehner invited Netanyahu was not for political gain.
 
DA60 said:
Oh, come on now. So Netanyahu had to come all the way from Israel just to tell Congress what he has been telling everyone for roughly 20 years about Iran's nuclear program?
And even if what he was saying was new, surely Congress reads/listens to the news. They would have heard it when he said it in Israel. This is not 1915...politicians do not need to travel to Congress to state their cases...all they have to do is state it at home to the media and instantly it will be freely available to every politician.

I find it hard to believe that you honestly think that the number one reason why Boehner invited Netanyahu was not for political gain.
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Don't act as though it is the same to read a man's opinion and having him hold a highly visible speech before the legislative of the United States against the will of the President.

PS: Why would anyone think that politicians would not do things for political gain? The whole political system is build on the assumption that they do. So where is the beef?
 
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