View Poll Results: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

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  • Yes

    126 91.97%
  • No

    11 8.03%
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Thread: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

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    Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

    It seems like there is no part of PEGIDA that doesn't have some racial element. There are its leaders:



    Who have espoused views such as these ones:

    Pegida leader resigns after photograph of him posing as Adolf Hitler emerges - Telegraph

    But in a series of Facebook comments reproduced by the Dresdner Morgenpost, Mr Bachmann appeared to describe immigrants and asylum-seekers as “filth”, “trash” and “brutes”.“There are no real war refugees,” he appeared to say in another post, which went on argue that any asylum-seeker who could afford to travel to Europe was not in real danger.
    “I apologise sincerely to all citizens who feel offended by my posts,” Mr Bachmann said in a statement released by Pegida.
    “There were inconsiderate remarks that I would not make it today. I am sorry that I have so harmed the interests of our movement.”
    Then there are the people who support both PEGIDA and Golden Dawn:



    It's also important to mention that the reaction to PEGIDA has been pretty strong:

    Around 35,000 Germans rally in Dresden against racism and xenophobia | Reuters

    "We won't permit that hate will divide us", Dresden's mayor Helma Orosz said in front of the 18th-century Frauenkirche (Church of Our Lady).Around 35,000 people attended the rally that was jointly organized by the state government of Saxony and the city of Dresden, officials said.
    The movement Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West (PEGIDA) is holding weekly rallies in Dresden with a record number of 18,000 people attending last Monday.


    So with that said, do you believe PEGIDA is a racist movement pretending not to be? I made the choices Yes or No. This poll supposes that you actually know about these organizations.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It seems like there is no part of PEGIDA that doesn't have some racial element --
    I voted no because on those grounds you could accuse almost all political parties of being racist.

    Pegida is a response from the street by people who are recognising that national governments are failing to address some popular concerns. Whether you like Pegida or not, there are legitimate concerns which are not being addressed or at worst ignored.

    For anyone wishing to follow views of Pegida by a moderate German in Germany - see below.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...s-germany.html

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I voted no because on those grounds you could accuse almost all political parties of being racist.

    Pegida is a response from the street by people who are recognising that national governments are failing to address some popular concerns. Whether you like Pegida or not, there are legitimate concerns which are not being addressed or at worst ignored.

    For anyone wishing to follow views of Pegida by a moderate German in Germany - see below.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...s-germany.html
    PEGIDA is a one issue sort of movement. That's why I didn't really group it with parties. Secondly, let's take a look at accusing people of being racist. I'm not, I asked a question based on different 3 key of any organization: It's leadership, it's associations and the reaction from the populace.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 02-28-15 at 06:55 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    It's a group of people tired of living in fear of being gunned down or blown up, for their beliefs or right to express them, by those in the Islamic regime who are threatening Western society and their way of life by:

    -Immigrating in mass numbers
    -preaching radical views
    -carrying out the darkest forms of those views
    -using their views as a means to justify those actions

    Low birth rates of westerners mixed with mass migration and the fact that Sharia Law courts and "no-go zones" exist in Europe (look it up. Even Islamists will tell you that cops do not go there) equals rise in groups like PEGIDA. As long as birth rates continue to go down and attacks continue to go up, these groups will exist. Those who hate the race and not the "religion" will use the group as a means to express themselves, and they will be the poster children for the reasons the group should not exist. That is not uncommon. every political party has those candidates who are constantly used in the same way. What people are doing to this group and others like it, such as use the bad apples to condemn it, are exactly what they're doing to Islam. Is the group racist? No. Is it becoming that way? Yes. As more and more just become angry over terrorism, they will begin to blame the race the ideology most grips. That is how this group will ultimately destroy itself.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by chad1389 View Post
    It's a group of people tired of living in fear of being gunned down or blown up, for their beliefs or right to express them, by those in the Islamic regime who are threatening Western society and their way of life by:

    -Immigrating in mass numbers
    -preaching radical views
    -carrying out the darkest forms of those views
    -using their views as a means to justify those actions

    Low birth rates of westerners mixed with mass migration and the fact that Sharia Law courts and "no-go zones" exist in Europe (look it up. Even Islamists will tell you that cops do not go there) equals rise in groups like PEGIDA. As long as birth rates continue to go down and attacks continue to go up, these groups will exist. Those who hate the race and not the "religion" will use the group as a means to express themselves, and they will be the poster children for the reasons the group should not exist. That is not uncommon. every political party has those candidates who are constantly used in the same way. What people are doing to this group and others like it, such as use the bad apples to condemn it, are exactly what they're doing to Islam. Is the group racist? No. Is it becoming that way? Yes. As more and more just become angry over terrorism, they will begin to blame the race the ideology most grips. That is how this group will ultimately destroy itself.
    I stopped reading right around here. You were making a point, then you descended into debunked nonsense. I'll implore that you actually do some research on these supposed no-go zones before you address me again. I refuse to put up with uninformed people.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I stopped reading right around here. You were making a point, then you descended into debunked nonsense. I'll implore that you actually do some research on these supposed no-go zones before you address me again. I refuse to put up with uninformed people.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/ma...anted=all&_r=0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIy8snQrpYU

    if you do not wish to do your own research that is not my problem.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by chad1389 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/ma...anted=all&_r=0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIy8snQrpYU

    if you do not wish to do your own research that is not my problem.
    Oh for ****s sake....

    snopes.com: Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones

    Attachment 67181147

    Four enduring myths about Muslims debunked - The Globe and Mail

    Myth #1: The Muslim population in the West is growing fast and will soon become a majority in Europe – and a major presence in other parts of the world.

    The facts: Muslim population in 2012, proportionate to total population

    Europe: 44 million (6 per cent)
    United States: 2.6 million (0.8 per cent)
    Canada: 940,000 (2.8 per cent)
    The facts: Muslim population in 2030, proportionate to total population

    Europe (including Russia): 58 million (8 per cent )
    United States:6.2 million (1.7 per cent)
    Canada:2.7 million (6.6 per cent)
    Myth #2: Islamic beliefs lead to higher birth rates.

    The facts: Fertility rates across Muslim-majority countries

    1995: 4.3 children per family
    2010: 2.9 children per family
    2035: 2.3 children per family
    The facts: Muslim birth rates in:

    Iran: 1.7 children
    Turkey:2.15 children
    United Arab Emirates: 1.9 children
    Lebanon:1.86 children
    Cut your nonsense out and get informed. It will do wonders for you to stop listening to RT. Now go and putrefy a different thread with your debunked nonsense.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    It's only false in the sense that Muslims control the area. It is not false in the sense that cops do not go there out of fear. It is a "no-go zone." Not a "controlled zone." A cop could enter the area, but they are faced with opposition, which is why most crime goes unsolved or not even addressed. Government looks the other way.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6XQD0BxxcE

    And citing Muslim birth rates in non European countries means nothing. PEGIDA is not concerned with the birth rates of those in the middle east. Just those in their own country.
    Last edited by chad1389; 02-28-15 at 07:25 AM.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Are one or more of those who lead that movement - a racist? Obviously.
    Are there racists who take part in that movement's demonstrations? Naturally.
    Are the ideas the movement is promoting - racist ideas? Not at all.

    I've watched a video from one of the demonstrations, one of the leaders was standing there saying that they don't have to fear radical Islam anymore and how they do not advocate any action against non-radical Muslims and only have a problem with the radical Muslims.
    So labeling such movement as racist seems to be wrong.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    The movement was founded on racism and the founder of PEGIDA is indeed racist. PEGIDA's founder and leader (until recently) is Lutz Bachmann. The man who refers to immigrants as “cattle,” “scumbags,” “filthy,” and “trash.” The man who posted a picture of himself sporting Hitler’s distinct hairstyle, glare and toothbrush mustache with the words “He’s back!”. The same man who posted a photo of a Ku Klux Klan member with the cut line, “Three Ks a day keeps the minorities away.”

    Those keen to actively protest who do have legitimate fears and concerns should be aligning themselves to a more reputable organisation. PEGIDA was founded by scum and a reasonable person should not want to be associated with trash like that.
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