View Poll Results: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

Voters
137. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    126 91.97%
  • No

    11 8.03%
Page 9 of 19 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 185

Thread: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

  1. #81
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:31 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,326

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It seems like there is no part of PEGIDA that doesn't have some racial element. There are its leaders:



    Who have espoused views such as these ones:

    Pegida leader resigns after photograph of him posing as Adolf Hitler emerges - Telegraph



    Then there are the people who support both PEGIDA and Golden Dawn:



    It's also important to mention that the reaction to PEGIDA has been pretty strong:

    Around 35,000 Germans rally in Dresden against racism and xenophobia | Reuters



    So with that said, do you believe PEGIDA is a racist movement pretending not to be? I made the choices Yes or No. This poll supposes that you actually know about these organizations.
    [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
    From what I can see, PEGIDA is not a racist movement, though, miss understanding the basis has attracted a number of xenophobe primitives and agitators. The media and German Parties have focused on that group of individuals for very German and reasons of domestic politics. The foreign reporting has been mostly based on the indigenous reports and are so quite tinted.

  2. #82
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,047

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Since when do opinions, and even if they are the opinions of such important people, constitute as facts? For a movement to be considered a bigoted movement such as the EDL it is my opinion that the general atmosphere surrounding it needs to be a bigoted one as well.
    Observing an average PEGIDA demonstration, what bigoted elements are you seeing exactly?
    What atmosphere are you talking about? What does an atmosphere have to do with anything? How you feel about what goes on is irrelevant to what I asked. I asked how so many people came to the conclusion that these people are bigoted. Don't deflect. Come up with a reason. Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #83
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:31 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,326

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by chad1389 View Post
    It's a group of people tired of living in fear of being gunned down or blown up, .......
    Of course, anyone afraid of being gunned down or blown up in Germany is rather over anxious to the point of risking looking quite paranoid. But there are a lot of those people around in Germany.

    Also, though, I voted "no" that is qualified by the fact, that xenophobia is very widely spread and deeply ingrained in the indigenous population in Germany. The "no" meant only, that the PEGIDA people are not particularly racist and that they do have rational arguments for a number of their demands.

  4. #84
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So with that said, do you believe PEGIDA is a racist movement pretending not to be? I made the choices Yes or No. This poll supposes that you actually know about these organizations.
    [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
    I know that leftists media outlets label anyone opposed to sharia law, uncontrolled/unrestricted immigration, illegal immigration and open borders is a racist organization. For example the minute men which is a anti-illegal immigration group gets fraudulently labeled as racists by leftists that support illegal immigration. So I would imagine that media outlets further left than our own will do the same thing.


    Going by the political positions of PEGIDA I say no.I

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegida#Political_positions
    Affirms the right of asylum for war refugees and politically persecuted people.
    Advocates to include in the German constitution a right and duty to integration.
    Advocates for decentralized housing of refugees.
    Suggests creation of a central refugee agency for a fair allocation of immigrants among countries of the European Union.
    Demands a decrease in the number of asylum seekers per social worker from currently 200:1.
    Suggests to model German immigration policies after those of the Netherlands and Switzerland and demands an increased budget for the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees to speed up processing of applications.
    Demands an increase in funding for the police.
    Demands implementation of all asylum laws including expulsion.
    Mentions zero tolerance towards criminal refugees and immigrants.
    States that Pegida oppose a misogynic and violent political ideology, but does not oppose assimilated and politically moderate Muslims.[31]
    Supports immigration as in Switzerland, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
    Pegida demonstration on 12 January 2015
    States that Pegida support sexual self-determination (opposing "early sexualization of children"[32]).
    Argues for the protection of Germany's traditionally Judeo-Christian culture.
    Supports the introduction of referenda as in Switzerland.
    Opposes weapon export to radical and non-permitted groups, such as the PKK.
    Opposes parallel societies/parallel jurisdictions, for example Sharia courts, Sharia police and peace judges.
    States that Pegida oppose gender mainstreaming, and political correctness.
    Indicates that Pegida oppose any radicalism, whether religious or politically motivated.
    Says that Pegida oppose hate speech, regardless of religion.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #85
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,047

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I know that leftists media outlets label anyone opposed to sharia law, uncontrolled/unrestricted immigration, illegal immigration and open borders is a racist organization. For example the minute men which is a anti-illegal immigration group gets fraudulently labeled as racists by leftists that support illegal immigration. So I would imagine that media outlets further left than our own will do the same thing.


    Going by the political positions of PEGIDA I say no.I
    Affirms the right of asylum for war refugees and politically persecuted people.
    Advocates to include in the German constitution a right and duty to integration.
    Advocates for decentralized housing of refugees.
    Suggests creation of a central refugee agency for a fair allocation of immigrants among countries of the European Union.
    Demands a decrease in the number of asylum seekers per social worker from currently 200:1.
    Suggests to model German immigration policies after those of the Netherlands and Switzerland and demands an increased budget for the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees to speed up processing of applications.
    Demands an increase in funding for the police.
    Demands implementation of all asylum laws including expulsion.
    Mentions zero tolerance towards criminal refugees and immigrants.
    States that Pegida oppose a misogynic and violent political ideology, but does not oppose assimilated and politically moderate Muslims.[31]
    Supports immigration as in Switzerland, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
    Pegida demonstration on 12 January 2015
    States that Pegida support sexual self-determination (opposing "early sexualization of children"[32]).
    Argues for the protection of Germany's traditionally Judeo-Christian culture.
    Supports the introduction of referenda as in Switzerland.
    Opposes weapon export to radical and non-permitted groups, such as the PKK.
    Opposes parallel societies/parallel jurisdictions, for example Sharia courts, Sharia police and peace judges.
    States that Pegida oppose gender mainstreaming, and political correctness.
    Indicates that Pegida oppose any radicalism, whether religious or politically motivated.
    Says that Pegida oppose hate speech, regardless of religion.
    Yes, yes, there are their demands, and there are the ideas behind the people who created them. Do you believe that given their former leader's/founder's views on immigration, they are masquerading as something they are not? For example, their founder doesn't seem to be a fan of the Judeo part of Judeo-Christian culture but they claim to be supported of protecting the aforementioned. Do you believe that is disingenuous at all?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #86
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
    Apocalypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    17,207

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What atmosphere are you talking about? What does an atmosphere have to do with anything?
    Atmosphere is the chanting, the signs, the opinions of the majority of the demonstrators.
    The general atmosphere in an EDL demonstration is a bigoted one.
    Is that the same in a PEGIDA demonstration? Doesn't seem so.



    How you feel about what goes on is irrelevant to what I asked. I asked how so many people came to the conclusion that these people are bigoted. Don't deflect. Come up with a reason. Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?
    Conspiring? Who talked about conspiring. That's entirely your injection. It's also your injection that they claimed it was racist, Angela Merkel said "Xenophobic" which is a different term. The word 'racism' gets thrown around too much and it's a shame. It is my opinion that they are wrong. Merkel can't be wrong? She has admitted to being wrong on many occasions so we've established the fact that she can be wrong. As to the counter protesters, what makes them right? Their numbers? Because they simply do not.

    So if you wish to establish the claim that they are racist you would need to show more than some comments made by officials or a counter protest or anything like that. In order to establish the claim that the movement itself is a racist movement you'll need to point at its racist elements. I'm not going to change my mind regarding to the movement itself when I've seen nothing to indicate that it has a racist nature.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  7. #87
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Why can't you separate the leader from the message of the group? Have you read their platform? Do you know many people attended their rallies? You know none of these questions. And you want to deny Germans the right to free speech and demonstration by branding them racist.

    Immigration to Europe must stop before it dissolves the continent.
    THIS is the problem with people like you.. hiding behind "immigration" when you fully know that there is very little legal immigration to Europe from outside the EU, and what there is is mostly of highly professional peoples who come here for a job (depends on each country of course).

    What you, Front National, UKIP, Pegida, The Danish Peoples Party and all similar parties and organisations want is to get rid of the coloured people and non Christians and you use the immigration issue internally and externally in Europe as a platform to gain political power based on an irrational fear of people who act and look different. That is racism being hidden behind "immigration" issues.

    Europes problem is NOT legal immigration.. but illegal immigration and refugees and that is something that no one is willing to combat on an European scale... especially the parties mentioned above because of their racist nationalism. Just think if the illegal immigration and refugees was solved, what on earth would a party like Front National do then? Actual politics? HAHAHAH.

    This new organisation is nothing but a cover for more right wing nationalistic racist and fascists people using peoples irrational fears about the stranger to get political power.

    Now saying that, the traditional parties are doing a piss poor job of explaining what is the truth about immigration, refugees and illegals and have not realized that to solve the problems you need not quotas on internal EU immigration, but to have an EU wide fair policy on handling illegals and refugees and external immigration, but the mostly conservative parties of Europe refuse to talk about it.. as "illegals and immigration" is the bred and butter of their politics now days and that is sad. It is easier to blame Ali from Somalia for the economic problems of a country than their own failed policies.
    PeteEU

  8. #88
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,047

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Atmosphere is the chanting, the signs, the opinions of the majority of the demonstrators.
    The general atmosphere in an EDL demonstration is a bigoted one.
    Is that the same in a PEGIDA demonstration? Doesn't seem so.

    So in some panning shots and 10 second interviews with some people you were able to determine the environment? Interesting.

    Conspiring? Who talked about conspiring. That's entirely your injection. It's also your injection that they claimed it was racist, Angela Merkel said "Xenophobic" which is a different term.
    Xenophobic is an umbrella term which also includes racists. Unless of course you're being purposely obtuse. I mean, it's not like they're against British immigrants coming over or American immigrants coming over. They're against a specific type of immigrant coming over.

    The word 'racism' gets thrown around too much and it's a shame. It is my opinion that they are wrong. Merkel can't be wrong? She has admitted to being wrong on many occasions so we've established the fact that she can be wrong. As to the counter protesters, what makes them right? Their numbers? Because they simply do not.

    So if you wish to establish the claim that they are racist you would need to show more than some comments made by officials or a counter protest or anything like that. In order to establish the claim that the movement itself is a racist movement you'll need to point at its racist elements. I'm not going to change my mind regarding to the movement itself when I've seen nothing to indicate that it has a racist nature.
    So many acrobatics and I've got no time for them. Answer the question: Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #89
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
    Apocalypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    17,207

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So in some panning shots and 10 second interviews with some people you were able to determine the environment? Interesting.
    Another injection. You think they are racist? Prove it. You can't? Bummer.

    Xenophobic is an umbrella term which also includes racists. Unless of course you're being purposely obtuse. I mean, it's not like they're against British immigrants coming over or American immigrants coming over. They're against a specific type of immigrant coming over.
    No it's not and no I'm not. Xenophobic describes the hatred of foreigners and not of a specific race. An American with roots from Mexico can be xenophobic towards immigrants from Mexico. What kind of nonsense is that?

    So many acrobatics and I've got no time for them. Answer the question: Are they ALL conspiring to make PEGIDA seem racist?
    If you couldn't infer the answer to that question from this earlier statement I've made:

    Conspiring? Who talked about conspiring. That's entirely your injection.
    Then you're a lost cause.
    And just in case you still haven't realized it - the answer is no.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  10. #90
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,047

    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Another injection. You think they are racist? Prove it. You can't? Bummer.
    I didn't say they were racist. I asked you why you believe so many people think they are. Don't let the strawman hit you on the way out.

    No it's not and no I'm not. Xenophobic describes the hatred of foreigners and not of a specific race.
    Semantics. If you dislike people from Sub-saharan countries because they're black, then you're both a xenophobe and a racist. If you dislike the Chinese because they're Asians, it's the same exact thing. Your acrobatics are starting to amuse me though. Do they work in the M/E forum?

    An American with roots from Mexico can be xenophobic towards immigrants from Mexico. What kind of nonsense is that?
    Yes, and that would make him a xenophobe and a racist. The difference you're trying to draw here is irrelevant. PEGIDA is a movement based on European nationalism. It's not like they're opposing white immigrants. They're opposing Muslim immigration which come from specific countries.

    If you couldn't infer the answer to that question from this earlier statement I've made:

    Then you're a lost cause.
    And just in case you still haven't realized it - the answer is no.
    Ah, so nobody is conspiring to make PEGIDA look racist? Interesting. Why do so many people think they are racist then?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

Page 9 of 19 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •