View Poll Results: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

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  • Yes

    126 91.97%
  • No

    11 8.03%
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Thread: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?[W:143]

  1. #171
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Well with that logic you must believe that the National Socialists werent so bad without Hitler then...
    The National Socialists party was a political group following an ideology. This ideology had promoted values such as racism. PEGIDA is a movement. The movement is not promoting immoral values such as racism or xenophobia. It's a movement against radicalism in Islam and its effects on Western societies. The people who take part in that movement cannot be labeled as racist merely because the previous leader and founder was. This is illogical, this is stupid.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes, yes, there are their demands, and there are the ideas behind the people who created them. Do you believe that given their former leader's/founder's views on immigration, they are masquerading as something they are not? For example, their founder doesn't seem to be a fan of the Judeo part of Judeo-Christian culture but they claim to be supported of protecting the aforementioned. Do you believe that is disingenuous at all?
    The alleged statements or alleged actions by an individual does not mean the whole group is that way. I say alleged because anti-illegal immigration groups, anti-loose immigration standards groups, anti-open borders groups and groups that are opposed to letting in individuals who do not assimilate are often painted by the opposition as racists,xenophobes and etc.Most of these pro-open borders, pro-illegal immigration groups are so dishonest they will find a racist or even use a shill pretending to be part of the group in order to paint the whole entire group as racists. For example in this country the Minute Men which has black, white,Hispanic members and so on are painted at racist xenophobic vigilantes by the pro-illegals side.Heck even Tea Party republicans regular establishment republicans are painted as racists. So I am suspicious when globalists,internationalists, pro-amnesty,pro-illegal immigration and other similar individuals and a biased media on their side is painting a group opposed to unrestricted immigration as racists.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  3. #173
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    There is a huge difference between immigration to the USA (or Australia or Canada or South America etc) in that this is our native country. Why do people insist we must take in immigrants when they cause so much trouble?

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The National Socialists party was a political group following an ideology. This ideology had promoted values such as racism. PEGIDA is a movement. The movement is not promoting immoral values such as racism or xenophobia. It's a movement against radicalism in Islam and its effects on Western societies. The people who take part in that movement cannot be labeled as racist merely because the previous leader and founder was. This is illogical, this is stupid.
    Get your facts straight.

    This is from The Nazi...er...Pegida's UK Facebook page:

    'Patriotic Europeans against the Islamisation of the west.'

    https://www.facebook.com/pegida.uk


    Islamisation...that means ALL who are Islamic, not just radicals.

    And to be against an entire religion IS xenophobic and prejudicial.


    Please stop wasting everyone's time defending an organization that you clearly know little about and are just glorifying in your own mind.

    And someone who glorifies a xenophobic and prejudicial organization speaks volumes about that person, Imo.
    Last edited by DA60; 03-02-15 at 07:44 AM.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Get your facts straight.

    This is from The Nazi...er...Pegida's UK Facebook page:

    'Patriotic Europeans against the Islamisation of the west.'

    https://www.facebook.com/pegida.uk


    Islamisation...that means ALL who are Islamic, not just radicals.

    And to be against an entire religion IS xenophobic and prejudicial.


    Please stop wasting everyone's time defending an organization that you clearly know little about and are just glorifying in your own mind.
    I'm sorry but all you did is to expose how amazingly ignorant you are of terms such as "Islamization" and "xenophobia".

    First of all Xenophobia is the hatred of non-nationals, of foreigners, not of a religion. It's stupid to say that it is.

    Regarding Islamization, you claim that it refers to the entire religion of Islam and that's just wrong;

    Islamization (also spelled Islamisation, see spelling differences; Arabic: أسلمة‎ aslamah) or Islamification (pejorative Muhammadization) is the process of a society's shift towards Islam, such as found in Sudan, Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia, or Algeria.[1] In contemporary usage, it may refer to the perceived imposition of an Islamist social and political system on a society with an indigenously different social and political background.
    Islamization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So let me be as clear as possible; being against the Islamization of Europe is not in any way Islamophobic, Xenophobic, Racist, Homophobic, Sexist, or whatever term you may ignorantly affiliate with it. Anyone reading this thread should really do himself a favor and ask himself if PEGIDA - as a movement - is actually racist. They should not waste their time on your comments since you clearly show a complete lack of understanding of basic terms.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    So far, 135 votes in...over 92% say the National Socialist...oops, I mean Pegida IS a racist movement.

    Nice to see the masses getting it right.

  7. #177
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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    So far, 135 votes in...over 92% say the National Socialist...oops, I mean Pegida IS a racist movement.

    Nice to see the masses getting it right.


    Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    By the way polls on this forum are pretty much all rigged by people who disconnect and then vote as guests and then delete cookies, but I would never expect you to figure that out.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    One can make accurate generalizations about people who voluntarilly align themselves with an ideology or point of view, but a similar generalization about a large group united only by nationality, religion or ethnicity is not going to be accurate.

    Ie. "American conservatives want to lower taxes" is acccurate. "Older white men in American want to lower taxes" is not.

    There are no laws in the USA prohibiting discriminating against someone due to their ideology in most contexts. (exception: hiring for lower level government jobs)

    No that's incorrect. If you don't hire someone because they're Muslim or Jewish or Christian or whatever, that's a crime.

    Employment Discrimination Based on Religion, Ethnicity, or Country of Origin

    Also, ones ideology could be considered their religion, hence making it illegal discrimination.


    If an employer asks what your religion is at all that's officially illegal. Religion is legally speaking an off-topic zone for work in the US and if you as an employer or supervisor delve into religion with coworkers your organization/company can be sued for discrimination and pretty much in court the only question that the judge is going to care about is "Was religion brought up at all?" and if the answer is yes then that's the case, the accuser of religious discrimination wins because a company/organization cannot legally bring up religion as an issue with regard to work and there's no way to disprove said entity didn't use such info to discriminate somehow.


    Now that said, do a lot of companies do it anyways assuming you won't spend the money to actually sue? Yeah. But I've seen companies pay big time for it when someone recorded the interview. Big payday in court.
    Last edited by Ryan5; 03-02-15 at 10:16 AM.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post

    Some countries have constitutions that enshrine a nation’s values, some ask for specific values to be taught at school and these are based on a particular type of culture. I can see how the above easily relates to muslim culture and how this would fit in with German culture but on the other hand – is the phrase “when in Rome” now a cover for racism? A request that particular values may be upheld and that incomers are asked to respect or integrate into?
    Cultural practices that are harmful to a non-consenting adult are already illegal. Demanding that immigrants conform to the cultural norms of a nation may be common and popular with many people, but it is a violation of their human right to free expression. Most cultures are already very diverse with a range of social classes, ethnicities, professions, religions and lifestyles. In free nations we don't use the law to oppress hippies, blue collar workers, religious sects etc. With all that legally and popularly accepted diversity there is no legitimate reason to suppress some specific forms of cultural expression just because they are practiced by immigrants. If we were successful at doing that in the USA we wouldn't have St. Patrick's day, pasta, pizza, tacos, hamburgers, egg rolls, etc.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 03-02-15 at 06:16 PM.

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    Re: Is PEGIDA a racist movement pretending not to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    No that's incorrect. If you don't hire someone because they're Muslim or Jewish or Christian or whatever, that's a crime.

    Employment Discrimination Based on Religion, Ethnicity, or Country of Origin

    Also, ones ideology could be considered their religion, hence making it illegal discrimination.


    If an employer asks what your religion is at all that's officially illegal. Religion is legally speaking an off-topic zone for work in the US and if you as an employer or supervisor delve into religion with coworkers your organization/company can be sued for discrimination and pretty much in court the only question that the judge is going to care about is "Was religion brought up at all?" and if the answer is yes then that's the case, the accuser of religious discrimination wins because a company/organization cannot legally bring up religion as an issue with regard to work and there's no way to disprove said entity didn't use such info to discriminate somehow.


    Now that said, do a lot of companies do it anyways assuming you won't spend the money to actually sue? Yeah. But I've seen companies pay big time for it when someone recorded the interview. Big payday in court.
    You are correct that religious beliefs are protected by law. Generally religion is not considered part of an individual's ideology and vice vesa. That is because a person's religion is only part of their ideology. For example there are both very conservative and very liberal Catholics. An employer can not legally discriminate against someone just because they are Catholic but the law does not protect other forms of cultural or political expression. An employer may legally discriminate against a potential employee because she is perceived as being a hippie, a punk or a skinhead or because the employer doesn't like the political opinions expressed by buttons worn by the applicant. Even an existing government employee can be fired for their ideology or lifestyle, even for their past behavior. Examples include the many police officers and teachers fired because evidence of their alternative lifestyle or beliefs had been found on the internet, even though their lifestyle is completely legal. I'm not saying that is right, but it is the current state of the law in most of the USA. I advocate for protection of employee's right to free expression outside of the workplace, but that has been implemented in only a few states.

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